l GAP l Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hi everybody - I'm about to go into my second year as an Architecture student, I already have a sound grasp of using photoshop and autocad and have been learning 3ds max for a couple of months now. Recently I seem to be hearing Revit mentioned quite a bit but I don't really understand exactly what its purpose is? Does it do a similar function to autocad? Is it worth learning at my stage? Currently I just do plans/elevations in autocad, drag them into 3ds max and use splines to create the 3d model, will revit improve my work flow? I'm sorry to ask as I'm sure this question has been asked a million times but I just can't seem to find a direct answer. Thanks in advance for any responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Compton Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 In your case I would say yes. It will broaden your CV and enhance your chances of employment. In my job I use AutoCAD and 3DS Max. I would find having to learn Revit wouldn't have as many advantages as improving my existing skills within Max and AutoCAD. I use .Net to improve AutoCAD so that it matches the work practices within my company. Revit is a drafting program just like AutoCAD. Both can produce bills of materials and can be driven by design factors (admittedly AutoCAD does require .net or similar programming to get the most out of it). It does come down to a mixture of what your work requires and your personal preference too. As of yet every project I have worked on has determined that DWG (AutoCAD's native format) is the standard for team drawings. I haven't worked with another company that uses Revit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris McIsaac Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I say yes. Revit is a parametric 3D modeling tool. You create a 3D model and pull all your architectural documents out of it. Not sure if you have also heard the term BIM (building information modelling) but you cant do much of that with autocad. I am not sure about your part of the world but in Australia there are clients asking for BIM in their brief and some even requesting it be done in Revit. I also teach Revit at a university and many of my students are recent graduates who can't get work without Revit. Being a second year student they may not have told you that 90% of your work will be producing documents and 10% making pretty pictures but in saying that there is a good workflow from Revit to Max as you have already created a 3D model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil poppleton Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Which ever way you look at it Revit / 3d modelling is the future for Architects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Matthews Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I can also add that most of the people around me that are unemployed are those who do not know Revit. I am not saying that knowing Revit is going to get you a job over the next person but it is a very positive thing to have on the resume. Many firms realize that most University work here in the States requires BIM. They are using the recession to to learn the program so they are on top of things when the recession is over. Additionally, Revit requires that you know how a building goes together and how to work in 3D space. You will understand your designs and constructability a lot better by using Revit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l GAP l Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 So does Revit replace the need for Autocad or is it simply an addition to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauger Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 It´s very different from Acad, and you may consider Acad an addition to Revit for cleaning up old dwg´s, so on. I you do lot´s of curved shapes/fillets on furniture/forms/buildings whatever, Inventor/Spaceclaim/SW so on is far better then Acad, and can be imported as a mass to Revit, then converted to walls/roofs if needed. But Revit can do almost any type of shapes if you take the time to learn the tools, and focus on Revit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Matthews Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 So does Revit replace the need for Autocad or is it simply an addition to it? You will never get rid of the need for CAD in the forseeable future. Too many people still use it and it is a very useful for most applications. I use CAD for basic layouts and bubble diagrams. I then import into Revit and start building. 3D modeling is also specific to the individual. Personally, I use sketchup for most of my modeling. If do mass modeling in sketchup, I can then import into Revit and assign walls to vertical surfaces, floors and ceilings to horizontal surfaces, and so on. If I need a specific massing that I will use in Revit (i.e. precast shapes, custom soffits, etc.) I will model those in Revit. Do more research on what Revit actually is. There are many tutorials out there for getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1d2d3d4d Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 100% it is worth learning-- One cool thing about it is to build and have different views (levels, section, interior eloevation, etc) you need to place the actual architectural symbols down, so it kind of trains you to draw in that way-- some people say BIM is 6d not 3d.... "4D (time) and 5D (cost) all aspects of life-cycle facility management (6D)" It is a little clunkier than some programs if you are designing/trying to be free and creative--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 In the professional world... Yes, it is important to know it for architecture, and at least be familiar with it for visualization. In the academic world.... It will cause you to get worse grades in studio classes because regardless of what anyone say you can not free form think in it the way you can other digital tools. Unless of course it is an academic computer course on how to use Revit, or maybe a construction class, then Revit would be useful. But, I feel for generating design at an academic level it is one of the last tools you would want to add to your tool bag. Does this mean that Revit is gaining more ground in Europe? I thought Microstation was still fairly heavily favored over there. There is also ArchiCAD, which a few users have told me they feel is more fluid than Revit at BIM modeling. But, ...Revit is the predominant tool for BIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l GAP l Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 In the academic world.... It will cause you to get worse grades in studio classes because regardless of what anyone say you can not free form think in it the way you can other digital tools. I think you've just hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure what the situation is outside of the UK, but here in England there does seem to be an emphasis (at least for the first few years) on creativity and free thinking. I have started looking at tutorials on Revit and although I can definitely see the benefits, it does look like a piece of software aimed at the latter stages of a design? I will invest some time learning it, maybe after my second year though instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Revit isn't design for use at the end of a project, it is designed for use in a project from the intial steps all the way through the final deleivery. I guess we should look at what Revit is and isn't... Revit is a strong coordination and documentation tool that works across many disciplines. The hope is that a Revit project will deliver a set of project drawings faster and with fewer needs for revisions after the set is issued. From what I understand Revit is able to do this by organizing the model into a dateabase that can be cross referenced, checked, and information pulled as needed. Revit is not a good modeler the way we have become used to good modelers. In programs like Max/Rhino/SketchUp, etc.. the geometry drives the design, rather than geometry that is derived from a database that must follow certain rules in order to form a building. The constraints that Revit geometry must follow is what makes it a poor choice for design conceptualization. You will need to think about things that are really only concerns if a project is actually going to be built. It makes you deal with things that will slow down your learning of the concepts of design because you are to busy dealing with the concepts of how something would actually be constructed, and how it would actually come together. Revit has tried to introduce conceptual tools into their package to deal with this, which I am sure are fine, but Revit is a beast of an application that requires a lot of resources. I would not use the term agility when describing Revit. I thought Project Vasari was going to be a way of removing the conceptual design tools from Revit, and make a modeler that is a little easier and agile, but from what I have seen, I don't think that is what they had in mind. It seems to let you do conceptual forms, and then test them in terms of the functionality and performance in terms of the enviroment they are located in. When I was in school environmental conditions were rarely ever even talked about during design. That has changed a lot, so it might be good to look at something like Vasari when learning design because it will help to make you more aware of how your design functions in terms of building performance in the real world. Now, ....I don't have a lot of involvement with schools, but I believe that the best 3d digital tools for academics are Rhino followed by Max/SketchUp. I don't use Rhino, and I hate getting Rhino geometry, but as far as trends in design, it seems to be a solid choice. SketchUp lacks, or at least to lack in terms of complex curves. The modeling interface also becomes quite slow if the model grows to be enourmous. Max is a solid choice, but I haven't seen anything that compares to the Grasshopper scripting that you can do in Rhino. Rhino seems to be a solid favorite with new designers, but taking geometry out of Rhino and into another program often results in more or less a digital pile of shit. Rhino is a nurbs driven program. So... at the end of the day it is best to learn at least basic functionality in many programs. You need the ability to make sure that you are using the right tool for the job you are trying to do. Which is true of anything you do in life. Try to always use the right tool for the right job. Edited June 11, 2011 by Crazy Homeless Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Larsen Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) I’ve been in this business for 32-years… The biggest abyss in our industry is programs like Revit that have turned 2-lines on a sheet of paper into exercises in absurdity. Think of it this way – the cost, in terms of programs, systems, and the time it takes to train a CAD tech to become even moderately proficient or efficient, just to get the 2-lines that represent a wall on your sheet of paper, is now about 500-times more than it ought to be, because we have let software marketers drive our business models. BIM belongs in government where budgets and project schedules are annoyances, and excuses for more meetings. In the real world where very few real ‘designers’ can even draw a line in AutoCAD, REVIT is a hindrance. And fast-forward to Construction Documents and any contractor will tell you that CD’s today suck when compared to 25-years ago. The paradox is that most firms that I know of that try to use REVIT, are always scrambling to find someone to produce their CD's in AutoCAD, to avoid getting fired by their client for being so far behind schedule. Edited June 17, 2011 by karlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauger Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I�ve been in this business for 32-years� The biggest abyss in our industry is programs like Revit that have turned 2-lines on a sheet of paper into exercises in absurdity. Think of it this way � the cost, in terms of programs, systems, and the time it takes to train a CAD tech to become even moderately proficient or efficient, just to get the 2-lines that represent a wall on your sheet of paper, is now about 500-times more than it ought to be, because we have let software marketers drive our business models. BIM belongs in government where budgets and project schedules are annoyances, and excuses for more meetings. In the real world where very few real �designers� can even draw a line in AutoCAD, REVIT is a hindrance. And fast-forward to Construction Documents and any contractor will tell you that CD�s today suck when compared to 25-years ago. The paradox is that most firms that I know of that try to use REVIT, are always scrambling to find someone to produce their CD's in AutoCAD, to avoid getting fired by their client for being so far behind schedule. I agree that Revit is a monster if you don�t know it�s featurebased workflow, and you need to unlearn old skills to learn to love it . Direct modeling combined with Revit would be great, but still some years ahead. I just made a very turtle like roof in Rhino (I love the freedom if it), imported it into Revit to be disappointed so on. Nope! it converted into a perfect roof I can trim walls/storefronts etc to it, made me rethink the only 1 tool attitude. Like CHG said "So... at the end of the day it is best to learn at least basic functionality in many programs. You need the ability to make sure that you are using the right tool for the job you are trying to do. Which is true of anything you do in life. Try to always use the right tool for the right job." PS:CD�s should never be done in Acad, if they resort to it! I can only guess lack of proper training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauger Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Gotta love Rhino, made a caterpillar too! Spendt total of 3h today, and shapes are just happening. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRobertson_23 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I would definitely say yes. I am in intern architect in NYC, and that's all we use. Most of the drawings we get from consultants are AutoCAD files, but they easily integrate with Revit. We used Revit a lot during my third year of studio, but it was more of an end of the pipe line kind of tool. We used SketchUp, and Rhino for the more conceptual stuff. I did have a few professors that would turn their nose at the thought of us even using software to design with. It's definitely a must in the professional world, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Larsen Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Hi Dave, NYC is where I recieved my formative training in architecture, 30+ years ago, and I have watched our business model change drastically over those 30-years. I started back when lead and vellum was king and have worked all the way through ink/mylar/pinbar (go look that one up) and AutoCAD since release 2.2 through AutoCAD 2011 and Revit 2011… I was a Studio Director in an Internation Branding Company and was responsible for the development of some well-known restaurant concepts that you probably drive past regularly. Revit is a scam. Great architecture, and great design, has zero to do with software, and some of the greatest architecture on Earth was created long before Revit. Funny how all that great architecture happened with only a pencil and paper and people that were trained how to visualize and think. BIM is great, if you are NASA, or the Government, and you can afford to pay 4 or 5 people to stand around a computer trying to figure out how to get 3-walls to intersect. I don’t know of a single small business that can even begin to use Revit profitably, or efficiently, yet so many have been hooked into investing huge resources into its implementation, only to hide the fact that in the end they outsource the Construction Documents. Remember this next time you hear of any Architecture firm outsourcing your work to India… Sketchup for concept modeling, 3DS Studio Max (for rendering) and a few really good AutoCAD drafters will beat anyone using revit, any place, any time. In the end, good architecture and good design can only come from a good mind – and the biggest trick to becoming profitable on the production side is to learn what you don’t have to put into a set of drawings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauger Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 If Acad is so fast, I must have missed some tools. Try change this facade to octagons, and the shape a bit different. http://smithgill.com/assets/files/masdar_portfolio_website2pdf.pdf#/work/wings_museum Another one, they must have gone wild in the mass tools he he. http://smithgill.com/assets/files/masdar_portfolio_website2pdf.pdf#/work/by_name/masdar_headquarters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauger Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 The claim that Revit can´t do CD´s is old, and proven false everyday. http://revitoped.blogspot.com/2009/08/is-is-cad-or-revit.html Has also been discussed to boredom at Augi. http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=115924 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Larsen Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It can’t do it cost-effectively. If you work for a firm that is willing to pay you to sit there for eons to configure a program to produce a detail that any good drafter can produce in about an hour (based on your example) more power to you! The fact remains that 99% of small companies that are not government/taxpayer subsidized in some way can NOT afford to pay a cad guy to play with a program ad-infinitum to get it to produce a desired result, and that is why so much work is being outsourced to India. Also, if you are revising the façade to octagons in the middle of construction document production, then you don’t fully understand the design development stage of a project, or when to proceed to construction document production. I am not trying to talk you out of REVIT, but you aren’t ever going to talk me in to it. I use it when a client insists, but they are never happy with the bill, and more often than their pr/marketing execs will admit, they throw their hands up and outsource to whoever can get their projects finished on time and on budget. A great architect can produce a fantastic design on a napkin… architectural drawings are nothing more than the directions for constructing the vision; they are NOT the vision itself, nor is the software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlotristan3d Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Sketchup for concept modeling, 3DS Studio Max (for rendering) and a few really good AutoCAD drafters will beat anyone using revit, any place, any time. To some extent I agree with this. I work for a Large North American company where most of the principals are north of 50. Every design starts with a sketch, then Sketchup for modelling, then Revit for CD's. The problem is there are very few people who are both proficient in Revit and construction technology. The so-called Revit experts are inexperienced in actual construction. And those knowlegeable in construction are not proficient in Revit. Every Revit user in the company tells me that I should start my design in Revit, but these are the technologists who are not involved in design and probably does not know what it takes to design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Larsen Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 The so-called Revit experts are inexperienced in actual construction. Bingo! But I would add that most Revit experts are even less experienced in what a good set of construction documents actually is, in the first place. What you don't have to put into a set of construction documents, or a particular detail, is as important as what you do - a nearly impossible concept to teach a person until they start to pay the costs themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l GAP l Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 So I have started to look at Revit tutorials - I consider myself quite pragmatic when it comes to my architectural education, I realize that in the real world there won't be much call for fancy conceptual photoshoped proposals on a day to day basis. I just want to maximize my employment opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris McIsaac Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 positive attitude, embrace technology. Some people struggle with change and new technology but as you are still learning you will be fine. As I mentioned previously we are winning jobs on Our BIM capabilities using Revit. We just won another and we were the highest fee so clients can see the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Larsen Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 A famous quote: "It takes 20-years to get 20-years experience, and some people take 30 - Karl Larsen" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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