Recommendation for i7 Render Node configuration for $500-$600 budget

[unrinoceronte]

Hi, i am looking on buying some new equipment, but the most urgent one should be a core i7 render node, meaning just for rendering tasks. Budget will be small, say $500 to $600. I read a comment from Dimitris Tolios in other post that this might be possible. If this is so, i will like to go for one of those....

 

I do not live in USA, but i always buy online from there on Amazon, or others, and i pay a transportation service to bring it here. So please give me recommendations based on US stores if possible.

 

I have never built a system myself, but i am eager to do it. I have always bought brand computers, but now my budget for this is restrained.

 

I will be buying new workstation in the near future, so in the meantime this render node will be working independently on rendering tasks that i will send from my old workstation. I work with 3ds Max.

 

 

Thanks in advance, i hope to hear your suggestions or comments.

[Dimitris Tolios]

For this price you can do an AMD 8350 based node or at best a i5 based Intel node, in which case I would pick a 8350 as it is actually faster and cheaper.

 

The cheapest current gen i7 is the vanilla 3770 (non-K), and that is $290 before tax, with the 3770K being @ $310*.

Picking decent components, 16GB of RAM (2x8 with room left for 4x8) and a 3770 a realistic quote is in the $625 range for a complete node.

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 $290.00

Mobo: MSI H77MA-G43 $83.00

GPU: HD4000 - IGP on the CPU

RAM: Corsair Vengeance 1866 2x8GB $110

Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 $38

PSU: Corsair CX430M 80+ $53

HDD: You choice of 500GB HDD $50-55 (64GB SSDs are around $75-80)

 

Total: $625~630 before tax

 

* I am referring to easy to access mail order sites like newegg and amazon. There are specials here and there, especially if you have a local Microcenter store, where in-store prices for intel CPUs have been much lower for quite some time now, but that was out of the scope of the OP.

Edited April 10, 2013 by dtolios

[beestee]

I agree with going for an AMD in render nodes, and then you can use the extra budget to reduce other bottlenecks. I would personally suggest going for an SSD upgrade, because any and all paging to a traditional HDD will reduce the speed of your renderings. It is a shame to put all of these resources into a render node and then bottleneck it with a traditional HDD.

 

I don't know if 64GB is enough though. If you really want to optimize these nodes for speed, then you will want to store your most commonly used resources (images for textures, hdr/exr files, proxies, anything that is externally referenced) in a local folder on each node, and ideally have a software solution to sync them to a server location for backup, and your workstations for adding to the library.

[unrinoceronte]

For this price you can do an AMD 8350 based node or at best a i5 based Intel node, in which case I would pick a 8350 as it is actually faster and cheaper.

 

The cheapest current gen i7 is the vanilla 3770 (non-K), and that is $290 before tax, with the 3770K being @ $310*.

Picking decent components, 16GB of RAM (2x8 with room left for 4x8) and a 3770 a realistic quote is in the $625 range for a complete node.

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 $290.00

Mobo: MSI H77MA-G43 $83.00

GPU: HD4000 - IGP on the CPU

RAM: Corsair Vengeance 1866 2x8GB $110

Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 $38

PSU: Corsair CX430M 80+ $53

HDD: You choice of 500GB HDD $50-55 (64GB SSDs are around $75-80)

 

Total: $625~630 before tax

 

* I am referring to easy to access mail order sites like newegg and amazon. There are specials here and there, especially if you have a local Microcenter store, where in-store prices for intel CPUs have been much lower for quite some time now, but that was out of the scope of the OP.

 

That is incredibly helpful information!.. This will ease up so much my decision on buying this equipment in tne hext 3 to 4 weeks. Thanks Dimitris... All the components that you suggested seem quite exactly what i needed...

 

I know my main interest here is to keep a low budget, but just for the sake of it, what components will you UPGRADE if i put a $100 more to the budget? (CPU?, MOBO?, PSU?, CASE?)... (by the way, i like the design looks of this case...kind of important for me...hehe..)

 

I have never overclocked a CPU, but it will be nice if with this computer i start trying that out... Nothing drastical, just medium overclocking (i know anything about this tough...) I have researched a little bit, and it says that the 3770 can not be overclocked, but it has a Turbo mode that kind of overclocks by 4x...? And the 3770K which is just $20 can be overclocked... Anyways i dont want to overclock much so the computer doesnt overheat.. i don´t want to go into water coolersss. just the normal fans... Regarding this comment, will you recommend me to go for the 3770K? or will this affect the configuration, meaning that i will have to change also the MOTHERBOARD for other one capable?... Will the PSU take the extra watts needed?

 

I think 16GB of RAM is just what i need, in the future maybe i can put more, but for now is great. I also have an extra monitor and mouse and keyboard... so besides all the components that you suggested, is there something else that i will have to buy in order to build my own machine? (HARDWARE ONLY).... I know i will need the CPU thermal paste...

 

This are the SSD Drives that I found. I think i can go up to 120 GB maximum to keep the budget...

 

HARD DRIVES

 

Crucial SSD 64 GB: http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-2-5-Inch-9-5mm-Solid-CT064M4SSD2/dp/B004W2JKWG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=6BTDI7NT21TE&coliid=IBFPR4HH0JLT6

 

Samsung SSD 120 GB: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-120GB-internal-MZ-7TD120BW/dp/B009NHAF06/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=6BTDI7NT21TE&coliid=I11R6W0VI1CGBA

 

Sandisk SSD 120 GB:http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-Gb-s2-5-Inch-Solid-SDSSDX-120G-G25/dp/B006EKJCWM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=6BTDI7NT21TE&coliid=I14D5T35X9CICS

 

 

Thanks!...

 

P.D: how do you manage to put a "Short name" for the links? sorry for my ignorance...

[notamondayfan]

I don't know if 64GB is enough though. If you really want to optimize these nodes for speed, then you will want to store your most commonly used resources (images for textures, hdr/exr files, proxies, anything that is externally referenced) in a local folder on each node, and ideally have a software solution to sync them to a server location for backup, and your workstations for adding to the library.

 

So for every node you're going to copy every file created? The biggest bottleneck you're going to be have here is probably network speed with all that data being copied around! If network speed is an issue (ie reading files from a server), then perhaps the budget spent on hard-drives would be better spent on upgrading your servers and network? There are so many things that can go wrong with synchronising files, and in my opinion, it will cause more headaches than it's worth.

[unrinoceronte]

I replied 2 days ago to Dimitri, and also i made a new follow up thread and still, they don't show up...i understand somebody has to check them, but 2 days is normal, or could i have done something wrong? ...i am sorry, i am new at posting here in CG architect...

 

Anyways, Benjamin and Dean, thanks for your extra recommendations. I will consider the possibility of getting a little bigger SSD.. perhaps 120 GB will be good, and with not much harm on the budget...

 

And also upgrading my network to gigabit..(i guess i only need a gigabit switch and gigabit cards for each PC right?) I have a new small QNAP NAS that i have to install... it says it has giga lan...

 

Regarding what BENJAMIN suggested about OPTIMIZING the nodes and most common used resources, i find it very interesting, and i have started a NEW THREAD, but it does not show up yet ... As soon as it appears, i will post the link to that thread...

 

 

Thanks a lot...

 

P.D: Dimitri, if the post does not appear in one more day, i will write you again here..In the meantime, Thanks a lot! your information is incredibly helpful.

[Dimitris Tolios]

I love the simplicity and honesty of most Fractal Design cases. I like this one and I believe will look great stacked in both vertical or horizontal orientations. It doesn't have the best cable management inside, but the modular PSU suggested will help you have a very clean interior anyways.

 

Adding more money would not get you a really faster PC.

The only reason to get more expensive components, would be for overclocking, in which case I would ofc get moderately more expensive cooler probably a CM 212 Evo that you can find for $25-35, depending on where you live.

 

The CPU should be changed to a K model, the vanilla 3770 and the low power "S" model are poor overclockers.

 

The PSU is more than enough to handle a single CPU, even overcloked. At stock speeds you won't be drawing more than 120W or so under full load (depending on your HDD/Fans etc). With a very good O/C you might break 200W, but that's it. There is no GPU or power-hungry components out of the CPU itself, and even a proper 300W PSU should hold. You can actually add a decent GPU ontop of overclocking the 3770K and the 430W will not complain.

 

What you should probably upgrade would be the motherboard, to one that will give you more O/C options. The H77 based boards are not build for overclocking. Most Z77 boards around $120 from all respected brands (Asus, Asrock, Gigabyte, MSI) will give you the ability to o/c a 3770K to 4.4-4.5GHz without too much hassle.

I would probably get a GIGABYTE GA-Z77MX-D3H for around $120.

Asus doesn't offer a really better board before the Z77 Gene V, which is a $200 board.

 

Unfortunately none of the popular mATX boards offers an intel Gbit chipset.

Depending on how you store and feed your resources to the nodes, your network's speed is important and intel GBit adapters have the best reputation for speed. Many full ATX boards do have them (almost all Z77 V series from asus), but mATX boards are left out with the vanilla Realtek. Not terrible, but it is actually one of the few cases that I would spent a $10-15 premium just for that.

Intel add-on PCIe cards are around $30 and I would not spent that much.

 

Edit: It is true that at some point last summer, a i7 render node based on the 2600K were much more affordable - under certain conditions for people in the states. Microcenter had a "fire sale" of those CPUs (and 2500K alike), selling them a bit lower than what a 3770K goes now in Microcenter for, along with a $50 combo reduction in case you would buy the CPU paired with a compatible Z77 board the same day. The ofter was limited in-store only, and there was also a quantity limitation, so you could not walk in a Microcenter and walk out with 4-5 pairs of cpu+mobo. You would have to re-visit, buying one a day or so. Unfortunately 2600Ks are out of stock months now, and the 3770K hasn't been offered with that $50 deal off for mobos. The 3570K does still come with a -$40 of the MoBo combo deal, but even with that I feel the a FX-8350 is a more compelling buy, that will beat the i5 and match or surpass the i7 unless you o/c it.

Edited April 13, 2013 by dtolios

[unrinoceronte]

Well, thats good to know.. I guess going for computers in this budget things have to be on a "sweet" point, otherwise there is always better components to add. I will look into the ones you do think might be useful if i decide to go into OC.. Anywyas, i have to think it well.. because at this moment i will be more than happy just Overclocking moderately since will be the first time to try that out...

 

Finally my other post appeared on the forum, so if you guys can check it out, will be much appreciated. Is regarding handling the files with the render nodes and my local network in general. I am very interested in what BENJAMIN suggested.. the syncing software....

 

http://forums.cgarchitect.com/73308-correct-way-handle-files-workstation-render-nodes.html

[unrinoceronte]

Hi Again Dimitri, its been 2 1/2 months since my first post in this thread, and right now i am ready to buy the Computer. Actually I need to buy it before this friday in order to have it on time for a job that i have to work on. (Maybe there will be some parts on Sale on the 4th of July...?)

 

BUT the thing is, i want to UPGRADE a little bit the original RENDER NODE configuration, adding a dedicated GPU, and taking into account the new HASWELL processor if you think is a good idea...Off course I have to say that the BUDGET will be increased to about $750- $900, or the necessary $ around that in order to get the best configuration possible.

 

This computer will be similar or bit better to your " FEATHER WEIGHT CG WORKSTATION" described on your PCFOO site, but with INTEL PROCESSOR. I want this upgrade to the basic Render Node because until i build or buy my PRO Workstation (end of 2013), I will need a good system to work on, and that later can double as a rendering node or as a 2nd backup workstation for work... (My main computer now is a 6 year old XPS laptop, Core 2 T7400)....

 

 

I am quoting a few things you mentioned some posts above, and below that i am writing my ideas and doubts on the Configuration i should buy, based on what you recommended. I been also reading many of your posts in other threads and your site at PC Foo, so i think i have a clearer idea of what i might need. If i got something wrong , please correct me...

 

....Adding more money would not get you a really faster PC.

The only reason to get more expensive components, would be for overclocking, in which case I would ofc get moderately more expensive cooler probably a CM 212 Evo that you can find for $25-35, depending on where you live.

 

The CPU should be changed to a K model, the vanilla 3770 and the low power "S" model are poor overclockers.

...........

The PSU is more than enough to handle a single CPU, even overcloked. ........You can actually add a decent GPU ontop of overclocking the 3770K and the 430W will not complain.

...........

What you should probably upgrade would be the motherboard, to one that will give you more O/C options. The H77 based boards are not build for overclocking. Most Z77 boards around $120 from all respected brands (Asus, Asrock, Gigabyte, MSI) will give you the ability to o/c a 3770K to 4.4-4.5GHz without too much hassle.

I would probably get a GIGABYTE GA-Z77MX-D3H for around $120.

Asus doesn't offer a really better board before the Z77 Gene V, which is a $200 board........

 

Note: Prices are from Amazon (mostly links you provided)

 

CONFIGURATION OPTION A (IVY BRIDGE):

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 ($290.00)

Mobo: MSI H77MA-G43 ($79.00)

GPU: Nvidia Quadro K600 ($130)

RAM: Corsair Vengeance 1866 2x8GB ($121)

Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 ($46)

PSU: Corsair CX430M 80+ ($50)

HDD: 1TB HDD _ WD Caviar Black WD1002FAEX ($87) (alternatively there is a 1 TB WD RE4 Enterprise for $90...do you recommend?)

Total: $803 before tax

Optional if recommended or needed:

- Samsung 840 Series 120GB SATA III SSD _ MZ-7TD120BW ($99)

- Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO ($37)

- Intel Gigabit CT PCI-E Network Adapter EXPI9301CTBLK ($29)

 

 

 

CONFIGURATION OPTION B (HASWELL):

 

CPU: Intel Core i7 4770 ($307) / (or i7-4770K ($335.00), but i dont plan on doing heavy OC...I have never tried OC before, but it might be interesting to give it a try...)

Mobo: ?

GPU: Nvidia Quadro K600 ($130)

RAM: Corsair Vengeance 1866 2x8GB ($121) ?

Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 ($46) ?

PSU: Corsair CX430M 80+ ($50) ?

HDD: 1TB HDD _ WD Caviar Black WD1002FAEX ($87) (alternatively there is a 1 TB WD RE4 Enterprise for $90...do you recommend?)

Total: $ ??? before tax

Optional if recommended or needed:

- Samsung 840 Series 120GB SATA III SSD _ MZ-7TD120BW ($99)

- Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO ($37)

- Intel Gigabit CT PCI-E Network Adapter EXPI9301CTBLK ($29)

 

Notes:

- Some parts like RAM, CASE, PSU, HDD and SSD are the same as in the IVY BRIDGE Option... Will they work, or do i have to change some of them to different models?

- Are there other CASES you recommend for this Configuration?

- I am not sure what you meant on the GIGABIT Adapter, or changing from a mATX to a Full ATX motherboard with gigabit.... Are you saying you recommend buying a Full ATX? Will this mean i have to buy a different Case and components?

 

I appreciate a lot if you have time to look at this extense post, or have any extra advice for me.

 

Thanks.

[Dimitris Tolios]

So, to get it clear, its not a render node anymore, it will be a workstation? Otherwise the dedicated GPU doesn't make sense.

 

If you will O/C, you need a Z chipset. H won't cut it. If you won't O/C, there is no performance penalty using the H really. Plus the factory cooler will work fine @ stock speeds.

 

Fractal Design Core 1000 was suggested as a great mATX for the price. If you need something bigger, not much more expensive, look at a Corsair 200R or NZXT Source 210. Both good value Midi cases for full ATX boards (ofc mATX boards fit in Midi cases, ATX boards cannot fit in mATX cases ).

 

The Gbit LAN thing was refering to the NIC (network chip) manufacturer not being intel in mATX boards (i think). Those still have decent 1GBit LAN built in nontheless, just some anal ppl prefer intel I would not add a second NIC unless it was a server having 2x connected simultaneously to have thinks uplinked and downlinked faster etc.

 

HDD: I have no exp. with the enterprize models. Supposingly are more conservative @ speeds, last longer?

 

SSD: Everything has a niche, and SSDs do make your PC respond faster. If you are trying to keep you budget down, I would opt out of it. But that's me. Others prefer the faster loading speeds, I prefer securing the fastest raw compute performance first (i.e. better CPU/GPU >> better storage).

[unrinoceronte]

Thanks Dimitris for your response and further recommendations and advice.

 

So yeah, i guess as you say this will not be a Render Node anymore, and more a Workstation. But a Light one i think... At the end of the year when i buy a good Pro Workstation this will be used mostly as a Render node tough, but also ocasionally to work on it as a workstation, or as a backup....

 

So, i know very little or almost none about Motherboards and Overclocking... I get mostly everything you say, but to round things up, what do you think about this? :

 

 

- Ivy Bridge 3770 / 3770K, or Haswell 4770 / 4770K? Just considering the processors (not Motherboards), it seems that the price difference is not that much. I have read that Haswell will not be much of an improvement on Speed at rendering, but, will this newer technology (processor and Motherboard) will be more beneficial for me in the long run?

 

- Should i go with OC or not? I have never tried OC, but i would like to. BUT i will defintely Not want to buy sophisticated cooler components to achieve this. If i can OC a decent % (not heavy at all) with the included factory Coolers or with a "normal" good one within budget that you recommend, it will be nice...

 

- I understand that for OC i will need a Z type motherboard. Does this type of Z MB offer something else besides OC compared to an H type that i should care about? I refer to both options within budget, because i guess there will be tons of other features in more expensive ones, but thats not the point... So, If you recommend me HASWELL over IVY BRIDGE, Is there a MB that you recommend for Haswell?

 

- SSD: I will go with your recommendation and skip this to keep budget lower. In any case, this can be upgraded in the future right?

 

- CASE: an mATX is perfect, i rather have a small case for this computer rather than a bigger ATX. I was just wondering because of "aesthetics"...if there was another good one but with a different design.... I do not like flashy and "decorated" cases, and the Fractal Design you recommended looks nice and simple, but perhaps there was other good one with good design? What specs should i look for if i want to look for myself? Just mATX?

 

To be honest, i thing that in the future i will want to upgrade this new Computer ONLY with more RAM (32 or so), and thats about it... Or perhaps a faster processor in a couple of years...An Extra Geforce GPU will be nice in the FUTURE, but i am guessing i will be asking to much for this computer... Am i wrong?. Overall budget is off course important, but if for a few bucks i can get a LITTLE more future proof system now, please let me know...

[Dimitris Tolios]

CPU: if you are planning to O/C, even for fun / try, you need the K version of the CPUs. The non-K cannot O/C in any singificant way (can do like 3-4%), while you can boost almost a GHz on the Ks. The 4770K is no more than 5% better than the 3770K for the most part. In certain applications - not CG related - there is a bigger improvement. The changes are mostly in the built-in graphics department.

 

The obvious advantage is that with the 4770K + a s1150 board you might have the ability to upgrade to the next gen 1150 CPU. It is not a definitive ability tho: the next CPU gen might be 1150 and not fully compatible, or might not be 1150 at all...nothing is official about their mainstream line yet (as far as I know). Plus, even if there is compatibility with a next gen CPU, if the performance improvement is in the single digits % again, it won't worth the money.

 

Mobo: The Z77/Z87 boards have the potential for OC, so most manufacturers usually equip them for it. The most important "addition" is a more robust VRM subsystem - i.e. the voltage regulators feeding the CPU getting a combination of higher quality, more in number, cooled with a proper heatsink or all of the above. Most 3770K for example can O/C to 4.2 or so without increasing Vcore...past that speed, chips become unstable and need more Voltage. This forces more current through the CPU, which produces a "squared" increase in wattage consumed, and you end up with a CPU that for 20-30% more speed consumes 100-150% more power.

 

Usually all manufacturers have 3-4 price ranges for their Z boards

* The "cheapest"...ok for the most part, will OC but not great. Say for an mATX board that would be an Asrock Z87 Pro 4

* The mid-range / best value, will OC good to great, reaching+/- 90% of what you could possibly get - that could be an Asrock Z87M Extreme 4

* The mid-to-high range, where things get more expensive but promise extreme O/C "potential" - That would be the Asrock Z87M OC Formula...

 

Chipset is the same, VRM and capacitor design & quality changes, fancier cooling and colors etc + more elaborate OC through BIOS settings etc jack the price up. Many times they add more or faster USB ports, firewire, mSATA or a load of "stuff" that most users never need, but its part of them justifying a $50-60 or more in price differance, when the parts that count for OC (mainly the VRMs + their cooling) could be head for $20 or less.

Usually the mid-range can easily hit a 4.4-4.5GHz OC with i7s and i5s which is the sweet spot before extreme cooling etc is required.

Results vary a bit from CPU to CPU. Known as the "CPU lottery", not all chips overclock as easily, with the same Vcore boost to be stable etc.

 

O/C or not? this is two-fold:

1) I have a relatively cheap system but I need to get more than 100% of it, reaching performance of a more expensive part.

2) I already have the best or second best performance part out there, but I need more.

 

Obviously, clocking an i7 falls in the 2nd case. A good OC is doable with a 212 or equivalent single tower 120mm cooler. Those sell for $25-45, and a board slightly more expensive than the basic model (i.e. M extreme 4 instead of M Pro 4 + Cooler = ~$50-60 invesment to do a 25% faster system, not bad). Extreme clocks require the absolute best in all areas, and to get say from 4.5 to 4.8 or more, you might be spending $100s for coolers, motherboards etc.

 

Case: Great looking mATX? Well, I think the Corsair 350D is "there"...but just like with Fractal Design, I like minimal aesthetics. The 350D is in the $90s

[numerobis]

The obvious advantage is that with the 4770K + a s1150 board you might have the ability to upgrade to the next gen 1150 CPU. It is not a definitive ability tho: the next CPU gen might be 1150 and not fully compatible, or might not be 1150 at all...nothing is official about their mainstream line yet (as far as I know).

It looks like there will be a new chipset for the Haswell refresh (Z97/H97), but maybe the new Haswells are also backward compatible...

http://asder00.blogspot.it/2013/05/intel-desktop-roadmap-2013-2014.html