Freelance Rendering, How much to charge?

[Tommy L]

We generally deal with client who are building a building. Buildings are expensive. They are what is known as a 'big ticket item'. Pretty much the biggest ticket item on the market. The budgets are MILLIONS of dollars. Dont get flustered into cutting your rate from 2k to 1.5k. You lose 25% of your income, the developer saves .001% of his budget. Its ludicrous. Grow some balls and ask for what you want to receive. Worse case scenario, you lose a cheap-ass client thats going to make your life a misery. Best case scenario, you earn the living wage that a well educated technician (which is what you should be to succeed in this business) is supposed to earn.

And another thing, if you are in the States, Northern Europe or Australia or some other first world / westernized modern economy, dont compete on price against the overseas market. Thats going to fail. Globalization is here to stay so figure out how your service competes on value, which is quite different to price.

Oh, and I forgot something else. Remember (if youre self-emplyed in the States) that you are going to be paying self-employment tax, essentially being taxed twice, so you'll have to add 15% on for that. The US govenment is not a supporter of the freelancer.

I dont even look at a job thats less than a grand. Whats the point? You'll chase your tail, pay the tax, do the paperwork and then the cheap-skate on the other end will keep you waiting for 3 months till he pays you. Life's too short, grow balls, walk tall, make a living that sends your kids to college instead of to a MacDonalds.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Tommy L

[jeffdagen]

When it comes to out-sourcing overseas to China and India, my experiences remind me of a proverb my father drilled into my as a kid: 'you get what you pay for'. For $150 at the billing rate of many professionals, they would be spending 1 or 2 hours on the rendering for that price. These companies rarely get it right on the first attempt, let alone the fifth or sixth attempt - which costs the people coordinating with them time. In some instances those doing the work do not have formal architectural training and knowledge. $1000-$1500 per image seams seams possible, though $2000-$2500 would be more realistic for a good quality image. This would depend on the scope of the project, as there is an economy of effort when multiple views rely on the same content and effort.

Edited September 10, 2014 by jeffdagen

[philippelamoureux]

I've seen a rendering contract between my cousin and a small studio (1 person I think)

 

4 still images and a 80 seconds fly tru in black and white (untextured). I'm not gonna show you pictures because it's private info. My cousin just showed me that cause I want to get in the business. I can just say the quality is not that great.

 

total cost 18 000$, ended up 20 000$ with extras. The studio had 2 weeks to get the job done.

The studio was provided with a sketchup model and cad plans. The studio used some premade 3d models too.

 

this is good money imo...I wonder if it's the norm.

The studio charged 3500$ just for the modelling, or remodelling of the scene. 8000$ only was for the video! Crazy!

 

But again...this is for a multi million $ project...so 20k is nothing. My cousin NEEDED those pics to attend an expo, so the client probably knew the renders we're very important.

Edited September 14, 2014 by philippelamoureux

[simonm]

Charge whatever your time is worth to you

[Corey Beaulieu]

This may be silly, but as I see it working in a studio environment I have to put it out there...

 

First, Freelance is a stupid word. you are a company. Make it so in whatever country you live in. File a license and no one will ever need to know how many people you have working for you.

 

Second, I come, awkwardly, from a jazz musician background. I know that is weird, but somehow the concept applies in my mind. I used to take lessons from a guy in NYC who has become extremely famous over time and his advice for overcoming the "pigeon-hole" was to just not do the work. Fight for what you believe in. Take the hit, put it on your credit card or whatever, but you are never going get what you want nor be happy doing your craft if it is not on your terms. This is hard if not impossible for most. I get that, but hear me out.

 

Studios get the luxury of pricing as they see fit (based on a million factors). They have render power and they have man power. Most importantly, they have a history that allows them to schedule things over extended timelines where they can overlap many projects and many clients so that they can complete work at a consistent quality. It is afforded to them because of history as they can say if you want this quality it takes this amount of time, but they also have a world where people call them as much if not more than they search for work.

 

Freelance is hard. You make your own bed. My advice would be to set your rates like you are a studio and put a stop to this BS of accepting lessor renders for cheap. NO RENDERING IS WORTH AS LITTLE AS $500 USD. EVER!

 

It is wise to take work at varying scales. Use examples for this. Don't sell a High-end rendering to gt a low end job. be clear about setting up the expectation. Anything else and you are only working overtime for nothing.

 

Set a base. Set grounds for additional scope. Charge for more and deny all else. Be in control. You cannot run a business where you are told what to do at what price.

 

I'm sure I'm just the american being SO american here, but really, the whole industry is at stake. If your work is as good as $20k an image (I've never heard of this only using it for effect) then fetch it. You can suffer a slow time for what is on the horizon. Clients want service, they want what they paid for, and tey want to feel as though you have investment in yourself as much as they do.

 

If you undercharge to get a job, you will only be willing to take it for all of the next ones. Everyone is scared that RT or whatever will make Arch Viz obsolete, but it is us. Architects (mostly) suck at renderings. We have power. Use it dammit. be strong, go for too high and see where it lands. There are all scales of work out there and you needn't slum for the check. Figure out how to market yourself as all of our renderings are for marketing anyhow.

 

WE ARE MARKETERS WITH A SPECIALTY. WHY DOES NO ONE SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF WHAT WE DO!!!!!! We are responsible for the image at the pitch at the sale at the overview... our clients make millions on the work we do. The better we are, the bigger commission we ought to take. Don't be lead to believe that we are a dime a dozen.

 

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I'm done here. Most of this is thinking out loud, but think of your futures dammit. If you charge nothing now, how are you going to develop over time. Your work? No. Great work is only worth what you charged when it wasn't great. Be a "MAN" and tale your bite out of the pie.

 

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an edit: great work is worth what you get for it, but if you start too low then it will only place you at the foot of a mountain.

Edited September 14, 2014 by CoreyMBeaulieu

[Tommy L]

Nice work Corey.

You touched on something slightly that I would add to:

There's no point in quoting lower for a 'lower quality' rendering. Always quote for your best work, regardless of if the client asks for something more basic for a lower rate. That conversation is instantly forgotten when the job starts and you'll be pushed to deliver your best anyhow.

[heni30]

Another thing that comes into play is rendering quality. What if someone is one notch above just starting out and their work is noticeably not as good as someone who's more experienced? If the exp. guy is charging $2000 for "Mercedes" quality how does the up and coming "Ford Taurus" quality guy set his pricing?

Edited September 15, 2014 by heni30

[markparsons]

Another thing that comes into play is rendering quality. What if someone is one notch above just starting out and their work is noticeably not as good as someone who's more experienced? If the exp. guy is charging $2000 for "Mercedes" quality how does the up and coming "Ford Taurus" quality guy set his pricing?

 

This is a good point. As someone who has only been doing visualisation work for 2 years or so while studying I had a very hard time coming up with a number to assign to my own perceived value as a visualiser/architect. Looking back, some of my first jobs were ridiculously cheap for the client and I could tell they thought they were getting away with murder. As I became a little better, a little wiser, my price range increased but the same regular clients didn't seem to mind as my work reflected my increase in experience and they were happier and happier with the end result. Everybody wins.

 

Breaking the $1000.00 mark is still kind of scary for me. I don't know if I'm really good enough to charge that amount. Some potential clients have been scared away by that price. I'm not sure if that's indicative of them as shitty clients or me not being worth it. With time maybe I'll have a better understanding of my own value.

 

I still undercharge, I think for the most part but I have a pretty cushy studio job starting in november so I'll probably freelance around the same rate and increase my pricing in order to reflect my experience.

 

To answer the original question, I started charging around 200 per image in late 2012, about 600 in 2013 and now ask for anywhere between 800-1000 per image not including modeling which I charge an hourly rate for. I don't really see what the big deal is with keeping these things secretive. How else am I supposed to know what to charge a client if I can't contrast and compare it with other artists/architects similar to me?

[sameerrathod]

Hello,

It all depends on what kind of client you are working for,as i am an Indian we have lots of client who bargains like they are buying some vegetables.

so we know at which level he will stop,and it also depends on project complexity and no. of views, if there are more no. of views for one unit like suppose client need 5 to 6 views for one bedroom from different angles, so in this case you can charge lumpsum amount instead of per view.

normally charges for rendering varies as per area. so search rendering rates for your area and make your own price list as per your services.

[Tommy L]

Another thing that comes into play is rendering quality. What if someone is one notch above just starting out and their work is noticeably not as good as someone who's more experienced? If the exp. guy is charging $2000 for "Mercedes" quality how does the up and coming "Ford Taurus" quality guy set his pricing?

 

Set your price however you feel is fair. The client should be able to judge the quality of your work from your portfolio and whether they contract you will be the price balanced against the quality of product/service. I think this is comparable to pretty much any transaction. Its a judgement call and you'll learn it from experience.

[Justin Hunt]

looking back I have almost gone the opposite way, I was charging quite high (for my experience) when I started and over time my prices have stayed more or less (probably less than more). So in effect I am charging less now than when I started, and some clients still try to haggle down.

 

I am working smarter and quicker now though, which sort of offsets the fees.

 

jhv

[heni30]

Ironically it might be better to charge high. That way the client feels like he's getting a high value product.

 

Just like you never go with the lowest bidder, regardless of what they're offering.

[Justin Hunt]

when ever a potential client haggles with the "give me a low price now and there will be more work later" spiel, I explain I work the other way round, the more on-going work and better relationship we build over time, the better the price, sort of a reward for being a good client.

[niamhlennon]

Hi all, I've only recently properly started working as a freelancer although I've been working with 3D on and off for 6yrs now. Reading this thread I'm completly amazed at the prices people are quoting! I'm Irish, I live in Spain and I work with clients both in Spain and in London. I would say my work is mid-high end.....it's not as good as the stuff people post on this site but it's not crap either. So am I WAY undercharging?? For example, a restaurant interior for a client in London....first visual £250 (GB pounds) and all other visuals of the same interior £80. The entire project (3visuals) might take me about a week taking into account back and forth communication with the client and small adjustments here and there but I'm not working on it for 40hrs, probably about 20-25hrs. Is that way too low or ok?? I do all the modeling, textures, light setup ect.

I estimated my hourly rate from freelance websites....what others were charging.

 

On a seperate note....how do you work out how much to charge for render times? If it takes my computer 3hrs to render 1 image how do I charge for those 3hrs?

[frog_a_lot]

Hi all, I've only recently properly started working as a freelancer although I've been working with 3D on and off for 6yrs now. Reading this thread I'm completly amazed at the prices people are quoting! I'm Irish, I live in Spain and I work with clients both in Spain and in London. I would say my work is mid-high end.....it's not as good as the stuff people post on this site but it's not crap either. So am I WAY undercharging?? For example, a restaurant interior for a client in London....first visual £250 (GB pounds) and all other visuals of the same interior £80. The entire project (3visuals) might take me about a week taking into account back and forth communication with the client and small adjustments here and there but I'm not working on it for 40hrs, probably about 20-25hrs. Is that way too low or ok?? I do all the modeling, textures, light setup ect.

I estimated my hourly rate from freelance websites....what others were charging.

 

On a seperate note....how do you work out how much to charge for render times? If it takes my computer 3hrs to render 1 image how do I charge for those 3hrs?

 

How can we answer that? You have one post here and no images in your gallery. Your work may be brilliant or it may be crap, maybe its worth $200 maybe its worth $2000.. how could we know? Not to mention it varies country to country, in terms of what clients are willing to pay.

I personally wouldnt get out of bed for that much, let alone do a bunch of images.

[philippelamoureux]

I personally wouldnt get out of bed for that much, let alone do a bunch of images.

 

haha +1

 

Cameron, I think you could charge higher. Think about it, you are offering a professionnal service, you don't have to work at minimal wage (or close to). 3d is hard and can be time consuming. It's not cool to give your hard work for as little as that imo. Without having seen the quality of your work, the best solution would be to step your game up, offer a higher quality product and charge a fair price aka a high price :-)

 

I think as a freelancer your should aim for 50-100$+ per hour. (usd) Especially for UK clients...UK is far from a poor country. Go all in Cameron!!!!

[niamhlennon]

Thanks for replying guys, when I first started out I hadn't a clue how much to charge and so I based my hourly rate on what people were charging on freelance websites but I see now that those rates are much different to the ones you guys are charging. Honestly I think, here in Spain at least, if I put up my price I just wouldn't get any work. If I had steady work at the price I'm charging I'd live quite comfortably. With regards to the London work.....I'll have to have a serious think about it....it's not so much the price that bothers me....I just don't want to be taken advantage of. Plus I don't want to be accused of undervaluing the work we do. I've attached a link below to the image I was talking about...hopefully it works.

I think, with regards to London anyway, like Philippe says, I'll have to up my game and then charge more.

 

By the way, websites like this one have helped me to improve my work a lot....so thanks a million!!

 

http://niamhl.wix.com/interiorarchitect3dvisualiser#!portfolio/vstc1=commercial

[harryhirsch]

''''NO RENDERING IS WORTH AS LITTLE AS $500 USD. EVER!''''

Take a look at this: the company wants 450 Euro (550 USD)

''our clients make millions on the work we do. '' Your client or your client's client? Plenty of architecture offices and contractors barely survive.

 

[philippelamoureux]

''''NO RENDERING IS WORTH AS LITTLE AS $500 USD. EVER!''''

Take a look at this: the company wants 450 Euro (550 USD)

''our clients make millions on the work we do. '' Your client or your client's client? Plenty of architecture offices and contractors barely survive.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52293[/ATTACH]

 

It looks like a screenshot from the game The sims (the 1st one) lol.

[StudioRendering]

Uggh..... There is one thing I learned the hard way! No one ever remembers how cheap you were or how fast you turned around an animation, they only have the end product and what it did for them to judge you by, so charge what you feel will give your client the best result.

 

Sonny... Studio Rendering, Inc.

[Corey Beaulieu]

Uggh..... There is one thing I learned the hard way! No one ever remembers how cheap you were or how fast you turned around an animation, they only have the end product and what it did for them to judge you by, so charge what you feel will give your client the best result.

 

Sonny... Studio Rendering, Inc.

 

I would like this a thousand times over if I could. It sums up the whole idea. Outsource what helps you Serb your client but never put forth a product you would not sign your name to. Get a model. Get an image. But if it does not put your studios best foot forward all you did was lose a client.

 

This is business of art. If the product is not to that standard then it is on you. Artists are not a done a dozen and thus we will never be "teched" out of our business.

 

Outsourced am an be good artists outside of your region or they can be sh*t shows anywhere in the world. Your standard of delivery is on you.

[Zdravko Barisic]

OT:

Payment story...

 

http://www.27bslash6.com/overdue.html

[MohammedYusuf]

Hi guys, I am an Indian artist from mumbai..Kindly click the following link to see my work and honestly tell me how much I should charge per image if I produce this quality..

[oliviecharbonneau]

Sounds like a very sweet deal to me and you'r not likelly to see a lot of these

 

I've seen a rendering contract between my cousin and a small studio (1 person I think)

 

4 still images and a 80 seconds fly tru in black and white (untextured). I'm not gonna show you pictures because it's private info. My cousin just showed me that cause I want to get in the business. I can just say the quality is not that great.

 

total cost 18 000$, ended up 20 000$ with extras. The studio had 2 weeks to get the job done.

The studio was provided with a sketchup model and cad plans. The studio used some premade 3d models too.

 

this is good money imo...I wonder if it's the norm.

The studio charged 3500$ just for the modelling, or remodelling of the scene. 8000$ only was for the video! Crazy!

 

But again...this is for a multi million $ project...so 20k is nothing. My cousin NEEDED those pics to attend an expo, so the client probably knew the renders we're very important.

[oliviecharbonneau]

Ok guys let's post images and prices

 

I sold this image for 1000€ to a large company in France

(not an architecture project but a product project in a room so it is pretty close in terms of work load):

 

 

Image delivered in 3500 pixels wide, high quality V-Ray render (licence bought, thanks for asking).

 

I can't remember how long I spent on this image and I'm not very good at keeping track of time ::: but let's say I spent 3 to 4 days (8 hours a day) including communication with the client.

 

I consider that this amount of money, for this amount of time, for this product, is right for me and for the client.

 

What do you think about the price, the time spent, the image?

 

Please post your images and corresponding prices so we can really talk

Edited January 22, 2015 by oliviecharbonneau