Anybody out there using 3dsmax and vray on the new Macbook Pro retina ?

[valenzulu]

Hi there

 

i need some advice, close to a deadline:)

 

 

My 2011 Macbook pro died and i need to decide whether upgrade it adding 16 GB memory and a new SSD, plus all the hassle, or invest (a lot ) of money in the new MPB retina display.

 

Because i lost the original dvd install dvds, and other issues, it's becoming a nightmare to recover it quickly as i need.

 

i currently work on a PC with 16GB and fast i7 3930K processor, but i always use a Mac for post production, photoshop and other tasks. i would like to be able to run 3dsmax on bootcamp and win7 and have some mobility.

 

I've heard some big complaints about heat issues and not optimal display performance on windows 7 , since most applications doesn't support retina yet, so i'm not sure about risking the big $$$ if the product is not yet mature on that side.

 

any experiences?

 

thanks so much.

 

 

Sergio

[Dimitris Tolios]

First of all, we have to understand something about the Retina MBP.

No application really supports retina, being OSX or Windows.

What Retina display is in MBPs - to my understanding - is "hardware anti-aliasing" : the OS is sampling the 1440 x 900 signal that you would see with all 15" MBPs, and doubles it to 2880x1800 pixels. You pretty much have one pixel being displayed in 4 pixels in the rMBP.

 

This allows for "impressive", clean vector graphics but the individual applications "are not aware" of the rMBP's 2880x1800p screen: almost all of them think in "1440x900" terms, and the CPU/GPU "translate" that to an antialiased 1800p - sometimes working overtime, as you see the CPU usage spiking even when you are simply scrolling fast through web pages (not a real issue with a multi-core i7, at least when plugged in).

 

When you are loading Win 7 tho, the OS stops being aware of that OSX trickery: you are simply loading windows on a 15" 1800p screen, with tiny little pixels. Photos and vector graphics still look just as amazing, BUT, the UI is not scaled up and appears to be tiny. Tiny buttons, extremely thin single pixel wide CAD lines etc. For many people this is unusable - each button is literally half the size (actually 1/4th if you thing it in area terms). and any people cannot confidently even hit them with the 1st try.

 

I don't follow the subject close enough to know if there are work-arounds, patches etc for Windows and the rMBP.

 

The heat issues are present with all laptops with metal enclosures, The fact that the CPU has to work harder (it is the CPU that scales up the image to retina scale), amplifies this fact. This heat has then to be dissipated out of the thinner rMBP, so obviously what was hot with the previous, thicker MBP will be hotter now. Even if you completely isolate the CPU/GPU from the case, the hot air venting out through the aluminum skin need minimal contact, and it takes very little time for the great thermal conductivity of aluminum to make the whole unibody heat up to uncomfortable levels under heavy load. Vanity takes its toll. Aluminum is so 90s...plz think carbon fiber from now on!

[valenzulu]

Thanks Dimitri for your great and detailed explanation.

 

I haven't been able to find specific 3dsMax users here or there commenting about this,

other than generic reviews.

May be is better to wait until drivers and the product evolves a bit.

 

Cheers

 

Sergio

[Dimitris Tolios]

I think it is a bit more complicated than "drivers"...

 

the rMBP is NOT a 1800p laptop, was never meant to be, as in reality most users will have a lot of issues working with a 15" 1800p monitor. Now, and probably "forever". Its a visual acuity thing.

 

I think 1080p 15" laptops are plenty. 1200p would be ideal, be we don't get that in 15".

Believe it or not, the usable real-estate with a 1080p screen is "better" than a super-sampled 900p -> 1800p.

 

i.e. if after toolbars and UI etc you would have left 700p (vertical res) worth of usable viewport in a 900p screen, you could display 700 individual single pixel wide lines on your current MBP.

So would you with the rMBP. The UI would be scaled up to 400p, and each line would be automatically be output to 2px width. You cannot opt out of it. You would still be able to see 700 individual lines, spanning 1400p instead of 700p.

 

With a 1080p you would have 880p of usable vertical res...

 

rMBP is not about utility, its all about looks and firsts.

[valenzulu]

it makes sense, i agree. may be in the osx the prettiness is not annoying, i mean, it does look spectacular with included apple stuff.

 

May be i'll consider another options like patiently get my 2011 MBP repaired and get back in track.

i have the feeling of "ipadization" of this macs, they used to be more graphic professional oriented machines.

 

Best

 

S

[Dimitris Tolios]

it makes sense, i agree. may be in the osx the prettiness is not annoying, i mean, it does look spectacular with included apple stuff.

 

May be i'll consider another options like patiently get my 2011 MBP repaired and get back in track.

i have the feeling of "ipadization" of this macs, they used to be more graphic professional oriented machines.

 

Best

 

S

 

They worked hard - and failed over and over in the past - to build up their reputation and apeal to the masses instead of just the pros.

The % of professionals that use Macs over the last 20 years I believe has srunk, while the % of people that use portable Apple devices for everyday PCs and web access skyrocketed. Still the vast majority of the latter group shares the notion that Macs are made for the pros, are more reliable, have an impecable OS etc - statements ofc that are over-the-top, yet fuel the impressive market growth of Apple great.

 

Macbooks still make fast machines that can be used by professionals, no doubt, but it hasn't been about it for ages now.

Ofc the definition "professional" can be stretched to fit millions of positions - in my case I usually refer to Architects, Engineers and Graphic Designers, and I think thats what the bigger crowd aspires to deep inside - when they say they "know" professionals use Macs, they don't refer to professional writers or front desk admins (tho who doesn't what a new iMac @ their front desk?).

 

Apple is in it for money - just like most companies and definately all "public" companies in the west. Greed is not fueled just by a handful of excecutives you know. Why cater for a handful of enthusiasts and picky pros, if they can win the general public?

[chrismonti]

Retina display are worthless for CG stuff.

Save your money and build a windows-based workstation while you fix your mbp.

Your mbp uses the 1st gen iCore cpu's. so, you won't have fast render times unless you do what I do and do the testing on lower quality in a laptop. When I'm happy with the results I send them to my workstation even though I'm having problems atm.

[valenzulu]

Thank You Chris

I totally agree.

what problems are you having?

 

I finally decided to repair-upgrade by myself

couldn´t be happier saving $3000, spending just $580

 

got a samsung 512 GB 840 pro ssd and 16 GB memory upgrade, did the replacement in 10 minutes.

(there is a lot of great HD videos explaining how to do it )

The machine now flies just like the retina. Couldn`t recommend it more.

 

(Mac starts in 8 seconds, apps launches in 2 seconds)

 

I have a custom built i3930K, and thats where i do 90% of my work, the macbook is my Video Post tool

and now i will do some 3D in bootcamp, while i´m rendering stuff in the big one.

 

Best!

 

Sergio

 

http://www.rendertone.com

[chrismonti]

Thank You Chris

I totally agree.

what problems are you having?

 

I finally decided to repair-upgrade by myself

couldn´t be happier saving $3000, spending just $580

 

got a samsung 512 GB 840 pro ssd and 16 GB memory upgrade, did the replacement in 10 minutes.

(there is a lot of great HD videos explaining how to do it )

The machine now flies just like the retina. Couldn`t recommend it more.

 

(Mac starts in 8 seconds, apps launches in 2 seconds)

 

I have a custom built i3930K, and thats where i do 90% of my work, the macbook is my Video Post tool

and now i will do some 3D in bootcamp, while i´m rendering stuff in the big one.

 

Best!

 

Sergio

 

http://www.rendertone.com

 

Post video in Final Cut pro? I'd go with vegas if i were you so your workstation can also do that while you keep your mbp primary as a on-the-go computer.

My problem, which is off-topic, primary has to do with slow render times but im troubleshooting.

 

Note: By the way, nice one on the Samsung 840pro. I bought a bunch of Samsung 830 128GB when Microcenter was doing a clearance for $70 before coupon(there was a $15 coupon flying around). Of course it was a in-store deal only so i had to bring relatives and pretty much bought 5 Samsung 830 for $275. I think the 830's are comparable to the 840 pro

[valenzulu]

To tell you the truth, i like the MPB screen and feeling when it comes to post.

I´m a musician too so i use it for that matters.

 

I never tried Vegas but i´m curious. Do they have a trial version?

I Gave up Final cut since their horrible iphonish mutation on X, so

i do editing in premiere, which is very nice and reliable. What i like and unfortunately is not available in PC is Compressor,

or been too lazy to find an alternative. It gives me excellent compression ratios vs quality.

 

At least in the mac side of the moon, the 840 pro is amazing fast. I haven´t managed to make ACHI drivers work on windows 7,

not a technical user, but it seems to be all good so far.

[Fooch]

Adobe media encoder have improved leaps and bounds from its original days ....

but yeah, compressor was awesome. Ditto for this. was a dual os person and left the mac completely when FCP mutated into FCPX.

premiere now does what I need it to do.

for me, mac laptops are presentation machines and not work boxes. They are stunningly beautiful though.

[valenzulu]

hi Fooch

In favor of the MPB, i have to say that at this moment is saving my B#%$t (will not hurt his feelings ), rendering some extra frames i need for a project with deadline in a few hours , but i agree that is not optimal for heavy work, and they are beautifully designed objects.

I never was never able to get an adobe media encoder compression in h264 as light-good quality as in compressor, and at this time, to lazy to research.

 

best

S.