alessandro.eu Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Hi, just made a new machine and I would like to take care with an UPS but I don't know anything about, how to dimension it and which brands are good. my configuration is like that: CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K Hexa-Core CPU Cooler:Corsair Hydro H110 Motherboard: Asus P9X79 WS RAM:--32 Gb-- G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB 240-Pin SDRAM DDR3 1866 x 2 Graphic Card: nVidia Quadro K4000 SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB Case: Fractal Design Define XL R2 Black PSU: Corsair AX1200i 80+ Platinum Optical Drive: ASUS DRW-24B5ST in the future I'd like to add more graphic cards (something like 2 x gtx) and I have also to plug in a 27'' monitor, router, switch and a NAS. I was looking to something like that: http://www.trust.com/products/product.aspx?ProductCategory=POWER&ProductGroup=UPS&artnr=17678 any suggestion?? thank you Ale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Cool setup. Managed UPS systems @ this class should be able to let you power down safely without losing work. Aiming to feed a 3930K and a couple of GPUs @ full blast for more than a few minutes is futile with little UPS units - you would need things that rival your workstation @ cost (ok, not exactly, but certainly more expensive than that nice 27" 1440p you want). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 ....do you know something about my config? ...sorry I really didn't get your point...it doesn't make sense for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 do you think I should look for something more robust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) ...sorry I really didn't get your point...it doesn't make sense for you? If you need UPS in your area or not, you know it better than me. You could have the need for an online, very powerful unit that can keep you or your whole office going for a few hours, can be as big as a under the counter fridge and have a price tag of a few thousand euros or so, or a little unit that gives enough juice just to save your work and power down your PC and NAS safely, in which case what you are quoting looks sufficient - given that you would immediately stop rendering tasks on either CPU or GPUs that were not expected to be complete within a few minutes. The issue is, that small "home/office" units are not doing very well under heavy loads…yes, those might be rated at 800W peak loads and 1000-1500VA capacities, but the real run times under that kind of loads (and your 2x "future" GPUs alone could be pushing 500W, should you have a clocked 3930K you could do easily more than 800W peak load) could mean very short run times under battery power. I don't know much about UPS brands...APC is one of the "oldest" ones I know of - used to be an important thing in early 90s in Greece and it still is in many places, but electricity networks have been pretty good in the places I lived and worked in, so it was never a big issue for me personally to investigate in. Edited May 30, 2013 by dtolios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlonarducci Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 1000va for a single Workstation IU think is enogh. All UPS give less or more time to let you put your pc in safety. more Va means more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 thank you for your reply! I am not concerned about black-out (maybe happened once in a year) but more about brown-out that is something I can't control (or notice). Probably I will go for the Trust 1500 that seems a good ratio quality/price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 For frequent "brown-outs", I think a voltage regulator like the APC LE1200 Line-R 1200VA can do an equal job of regulating the power to 220-230-240V (selectable). It is not a UPS - i.e. doesn't have a battery, I assume it has a few large capacitors though - but it is a line interactive unit and it is dirt cheap by comparison to real line interactive UPS of similar capacities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 For frequent "brown-outs", I think a voltage regulator like the APC LE1200 Line-R 1200VA can do an equal job of regulating the power to 220-230-240V (selectable). It is not a UPS - i.e. doesn't have a battery, I assume it has a few large capacitors though - but it is a line interactive unit and it is dirt cheap by comparison to real line interactive UPS of similar capacities. ...interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 APC I've used those for years. Unfortunately, the batteries do not last forever, and are expensive to replace. I had been using about a 1500va unit, a really nice one. It weighs 75 pounds or more (which is about 35 kilos) and I managed to drop it on my toe last year. Not good. That toe will never be the same again. The things we do for our work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlonarducci Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 poor toe. Must hurt a lot. but 1500va are all so heavy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 I've spoken with a guy @ Blue Walker about UPS, he suggested to go for a 2000V for my system (and future "possible" graphic cards) http://www.powerwalker.com/datasheet/Line-Interactive/PowerWalker%20VI%202000%20PSW.pdf it seems quite ok for the price but I really wonder if it's not oversized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Actually there could be a decent market for used UPS units with worn batteries that nobody wants to replace - though it is quite easy if you crack the thing open. After a few years, UPS batteries get worn out and the units don't reach their factory preset peak Voltage, resulting the UPS trying audibly to switch between charge and standby, and as months go by eventually giving up and beaping endlesly... At this point most people replace them and throw them out / give them away. Larger organizations probably have some recycling company handling their UPSs along with other electronics but you can always ask a IT person for one to be given to you. Most of them use 12V packs that are usually available in automotive / bike / boat supplies etc (guess even easier to spot now online). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I've spoken with a guy @ Blue Walker about UPS, he suggested to go for a 2000V for my system (and future "possible" graphic cards) http://www.powerwalker.com/datasheet/Line-Interactive/PowerWalker%20VI%202000%20PSW.pdf it seems quite ok for the price but I really wonder if it's not oversized Looks decent. Line Interactive, pure sine (the Trust you've posted was stepped sine, not a big issue but pure sine usually equals a high quality inverter/voltage regulator). I don't know if you need 2000VA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 pure sine...I don't know if you need 2000VA. Pure sine is great. The lower-end APCs are stepped, mine is pure. I will replace the battery, just haven't gotten to it, and yes that damned thing started screaming constantly, no way to silence the alarm that did not involve wire-cutters. 2000VA is a lot, but not so far from need. A PC power supply can easily be 1000W or more (like a toaster) and then you add monitors and networking and audio to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 2000VA is a lot, but not so far from need. A PC power supply can easily be 1000W or more (like a toaster) and then you add monitors and networking and audio to it. this is really a mystery...I sent the list with components (as on my first post here) to the guy @ Blue Walker and he suggested at the beginning something like 3000VA. Then when I said that probably for me such UPS was too expensive he told me that I could manage with a 2000VA and in the future add a 1000VA if needed. Others told me that 1500VA could be enough. It is also true that if in the future I'd like to add an nvidia Titan (up to 250W) or 2 x gtx 670 (up to 170W) I will need something that can support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 this is really a mystery... volt/amp is the same as watts. So just add up the peak W rating for all the devices, and you will see how much you need. I think in practice there is some variation with the local voltage as some devices may need a certain amperage, not just enough volts. Higher voltage means less amps per watt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 volt/amp is the same as watts. for the little I understood there is also a "Power Factor" with a range from 0 to 1. So 1500VA * 0.6 = 900W or 1500 * 0.9 = 1350W. So any device has its own power factor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 VA = Watts = Capacity. You can also see the batteries. The 2000VA unit you posted has 2x 12V x 10Ah (amp-hours) = 240 (V*A)/hour = 240Wh = it can in theory store and supply 240W for an hour. 1000W would be 14.5 min, 600W which would be a worst case scenario of real consumption in your case for the tower, would be around 24min. Add at least one of the monitors you might have (headless running PC won't do much) - 70W is typical for a 24" LED backlight IPS. That brings us to around 21 min of run time on a 2000VA. Substruct 15% on all of the above theoretical times for inneficiencies in inverting DC/AC etc. A 1500VA would be -25% of the above times, a 3000VA would be +50%. Thats peak consumption, using both CPU and GPUs, which is nuts...most ppl would stop rendering and start saving their work to power down the machines in case of a blackout. That would bring consumption well below 100W (around 170W with the monitor @ full brightness, which again is overkill and I believe most won't do) Why go to 2000VA if voltage regulation etc is equaly good with the 1500VA unit? Unless you plan to keep working under battery power, a 1500VA is definately a comfortable choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 wow! this is what I call a clear explanation! thank you Dimitris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandro.eu Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hi web master, well....let's say that's a nice machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zdravko Barisic Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) APC I've used those for years. Unfortunately, the batteries do not last forever, and are expensive to replace. I had been using about a 1500va unit, a really nice one. It weighs 75 pounds or more (which is about 35 kilos) and I managed to drop it on my toe last year. Not good. That toe will never be the same again. The things we do for our work. Branded APC batterise are expensive, I agree, but, totaly same chinese battery, which perfectly feets with voltages are very cheap, and they are good enough, perhaps APC only put the sticker over them, to be trought. Like this http://www.baterijezaups.com/ups-baterije-apc.htm just for view, RPC2, for APC800BR, one piece, is only about 20e, and you need 2pcs, but nevermind... this one rocks I have one for 7 years Edited July 2, 2013 by okmijun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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