Showreel Copyrights?

[peterletten]

Does anyhone have any insight in copyright laws pertaining to a showreel from work done during previous employment?

 

I'd like to post a 2 minute showreel on a personel portfolio site (not linked too my new business website) - which will have a selection of approx 15 jobs I did over a 4 year period at my old job. Given that:

 

• I'd credit my old company
  
• All the footage is already out in the public realm
  
• It would only be short sections of each job - eg 10% of any given animation
  
• Since its not on my new company website I'm not promoting my new business with it
  

 

Am I withing my rights to post it?

Thanks in advance

[marius e]

might be useless for me saying this as I dont know anything legal bout this, but cant see why u cannot do that? Its work that you have done and a portfolio of yours...

[Nic H]

id just do it - as long as you credit them and are not selling anything other than your skills its fine

 

if you ask the chances are someone is going to say no somewhere...

[RyderSK]

 

if you ask the chances are someone is going to say no somewhere...

 

I live my life by this rule

 

At the topic, I remember very good discussion about this on cgtalk (over at cgsociety) you might search there as showreel isn't that popular thing in archviz due to static nature mostly. The answer seemed to depend, like usually, to individual studios. Some are pricks, some aren't... At worst, they will only ask you to take it down from public space.

Edited June 25, 2013 by RyderSK

[peterletten]

Hmmm. Thanks for the comments guys, I think you could all be right. Alas, its too late as I've already asked.

 

My ex-employer (a reasonable guy) got some advice from his management consultant who had this to say:

 

What follows is not legal advice. It is merely an opinion about commercial realities.

 

It is common in creative industries for employees and subbies to have a sense that they still have some sort of "ownership" of the creative work they did for an employer. If the work was within the scope of the employment, the law is clear in my opinion: they have no ownership in those works. The employer does. That is what the employer paid for and, for that matter, created the opportunity for the employee to learn, practice and develop.

 

Your offer to permit the former employee or subbie to link or point to his/her material on your website seems to me to be more than generous. It is not unprofessional in my opinion for that person to link in that way for selected works. The opposite is true: no self-respecting client wants a creative worker who obviously and notoriously steals their emplolyer's or client's work.

 

In short, you have gone as far as you should with this person in my opinion. If you don't protect your intellectual property you are not running your business properly.

 

If this person thinks you are being unfair, then that person is being professionally naive and its not your problem. It is unfair for them to put these demands on you.

 

My kneejerk reaction was to respond: Has your Mgmt Consultant ever heard of a Showreel?

But I think thats maybe me just being frustrated.

 

Any other experiences, advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Edited June 27, 2013 by peterletten
remove reference to persons name

[peterletten]

I remember very good discussion about this on cgtalk (over at cgsociety) you might search there as showreel isn't that popular thing in archviz due to static nature mostly. .

 

Thanks Juraj, will check it out

[Nic H]

no i agree i wouldn't have much respect for management consultants and the like who are divorced from the realities of an industry to be honest.

 

people who have worked at squint often use bits and pieces of their work in show-reels to get personal employment as i assume you are doing.

its just what happens and most of the time its credited clearly and verbally checked if ok.

 

some studios wont let you do that and it would be in your employment contract. i think hayesdavidson keep a rather *stasi* like grip on their precious jpgs from memory

[peterletten]

people who have worked at squint often use bits and pieces of their work in show-reels to get personal employment as i assume you are doing.

its just what happens and most of the time its credited clearly and verbally checked if ok.

 

Thanks Nicnic, its good to hear there's a precedent for it. As I'm beginning to understand it, its the studios right to withhold but also their choice on whether to do so and how strict to be about it.

 

Would be great to get anyone elses input.

[marius e]

Do you still get work from them? If not just do it, create an area on your web: Past employment with works on it crediting the company as well. How on earth would you get any work if you cant show any work? Not like the work is TOP SECRET its in magazines and papers and on the web etc for adverts and developments etc in anyway...

[CJI]

I feel that management consultants wording is very condescending to "Creative workers" there. Of course we have a sense of ownership, we were part of the creation! If this guys word was law no one would be credited on films other than the financial backers and there would be no showreels, portfolios or CVs. Its rare someone is solely responsible for all the work. I would understand if you wanted to sell the specific images or pass off designs etc as your own, but whether they like it or not you did do that work and are entitled to say so as long as due credit is given. I use common sense on these things, if its under some sort of contract or NDA i wont post it anywhere, otherwise i dont see why not.

 

Because you have asked though, i guess its up to you now whether you respect his request and not use it or not. But like most people have said, in future, i would just use it and credit as required. I would imagine most wouldn't even bat an eyelid if you followed this procedure.

 

I think suggesting that you are stealing the IP is completely farcical.

[RyderSK]

I echo Curtis.

 

That consultant's advice was idiotic, past-corporate bullshit. I dread the notion when employer simply takes whole credit and ownership for your work because "he created opportunity for you", it's very disrespectful and ignorant for creative workers. I understand it is reality but I would not sign work under such conditions. In each of my works, I keep the ownership of my images, whoever I did them for, I also demand credit when published by them. But being little studio I run, my advice is useless for people coming from big studios who adopted these politics. I can see them wanting to protect against claiming full credit by run-away employee, but there needs to be a fair compromise, not running over their employees because they are the ones who can pay for "law".

 

In your shoes, since you mentioned your ex-employer is reasonable guy, I doubt he would legally sue you for breaching copyright. Just give them credit but publish it yourself. It's always re-versible.

 

Edit: This sentence still haunts me "It is unfair for them to put these demands on you."

 

So laughable to decide who can make demands and who not in corporate democracy.

Edited June 27, 2013 by RyderSK

[Fooch]

Always credit it. Always be honest. (ala dont include scenes which you have moved a tree within.. )

 

Then it should be fine.

[peterletten]

Yes, all the work I want to use was either all me or at least 70% me, the remaining 30% being done under my creative and technical supervision as Project & Team Lead and Senior Artist.

 

My ex-employer would (rightly) claim that all jobs are a team effort. The studio and its reputation provide the opportunity, as a team you build and share knowledge, there is an internal review and critique process, and of course you are using the company infrastructure, hardware and software.

 

All of this I understand and am happy to acknowledge, BUT once due credit is given, I don't see why I can't then show 'my' work off in a personal showreel.

Edited June 28, 2013 by peterletten

[Nic H]

but you can do it.

no one is stopping you!