unrinoceronte Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Hi, similar to my other question..., any good recommendation on excellent "Current" books for using VRAY? I use Max 2012 and Vray 2, but a book focused in a more recent version of VRAY will be good. I want a book with a comprehensive understanding of Vray, and good advice on applying that knowledge into one's projects... not only theory. So far i have found this one: Crafting 3D Photorealism: Lighting Workflows in 3ds Max, mental ray and V-Ray by Jamie Cardoso. (Can anyone comment on this book?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beestee Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 VRay - The Complete Guide is the best VRay book available, but it is for version 1.5 and getting harder and harder to find. It basically takes each and every setting in VRay and shows multiple close-up renderings of areas that each setting affects when set to different values. There are many great video tutorials around for VRay, and there are a few books out there but the only one I have any experience with is the complete guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numerobis Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Not yet released and no release date but i think it will be great... http://www.thirdseventh-book.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unrinoceronte Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Thanks guys, i was aware of the Vray complete Guide, but i imagined (perhaps wrongly) that it was pure theory... Even so, if i am able to find it and buy it, do you think it would still be a valid book with valid information to apply today with Vray 2? Numerobis: i have been glued to 3rd seventh website and twitter to get that book since a month ago... it seems that is really close, but still no news from him since 2 weeks ago... With a slight change of subject, besides a BOOK, do you know if out there (online or in digital form) is a good comprehensive METHOD for using VRAY and 3ds Max? A place online that gives a complete course? (but a really good one...) I found a website that teaches a self called 5SRW METHOD (their own method i think) and looks pretty interesting, but somehow i have not found reviews about it and that makes me wonder...The websites and offers are a little odd...but perhaps again i am imagining wrong.... One of the instructors is named CIRO SANNINO, and he is the author of a book that i also just found, and i would like to buy if someone recommends it to me. It is called : "PHOTOGRAPHY & RENDERING with V-Ray" . Anyone here knows this book or method? care to comment? Here are the links, in case someone besides me is also interested in this: ONLINE COURSE: http://www.learnvray.com/features/english.htm BOOK: http://www.grafica3dblog.it/libro/eng.htm Book seems a little expensive, but if it is good, what the hell, i will go for it. I am also going to examine the Video Recordings from CGSCHOOL, but i will like to have some more options to decide and make up my mind regarding time, money, and educational material... So please let me know. Since i am not in the USA right now, my limitations are either ONLINE, Recorded VIDEOS, DIGITAL, or printed BOOKS... I know there is tons of info on the web, but i would like to learn with an STRUCTURED METHOD, or ORDER at least...and then complement that with the web. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Depending on which level you want. There isn't anything at really "high" level, mostly because the best pros out there, haven't written anything comprehensive (and likely won't ever do). The exception to this will be Alex's book, but I highly doubt it will concern technical detail, and will rather be artpiece by itself, going much deeper than technical level. If you want fundamental understanding on current best workflows within 2.4 version, stalk some pros like Bertrand Benoit, on Chaos forum and read up the discussion around various topics. It's constant evolution. The Vray Complete book is utterly outdated, though, lot of info still holds true, since the paramaters are still there, but things work under different concepts (mostly concerning samplig, GI vs AA,etc..), so you wouldn't be able to apply it so much within current version or upcoming 3.0. The Ciro's book.. I think might be good for begginers and hobbyists. But that godamn marketing is so ridicolous, it's like the worst "Dieting pills" type of scam on internet. I guess that sort of form really works for imbeciles. For understanding of Vray, I would go though some makings-of again, from the pros you like. It's sadly not such a huge market, so, for structured method, you can either join some high-end courses, or work it slowly by yourself, stiching the pieces of scattered info around. Nothing condensed around much.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unrinoceronte Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Thanks Juraj, that was my exact same tought on the marketing of Ciros Book and 5SRW Training, but bited my tongue and didn´t put it on those words.... (By the way, do you think that their 5SRW method is also for "beginners and hobbyist?) I will be very happy to pay for an online course or recorded videos from either a big educational company or a small boutique visualization firm or individual. As long as it has a somehow structured learning curve, and really teaches beyond the Fundamentals... I mean, at least to have a good knowledge to eventually produce the high quality compositions that we are taking about.... I remember many years ago i accidentally ended up in a website form a very high skill visualization artist from Russia that was giving a online course, but somehow i lost the link and i never found it again... As you say, probably none of the pros will write a Book, but if you know of any Pro or at least SEMI Pro visualization artist that gives a comprehensive online course or video, i will inmediately go to them . I think you are right with all the other things you mention... And i know there is much more to it than just a technical knowledge, or having a structured method... It has to do with the combinations of this and taste, composition, and creativity, etc... But anyways i have to start somewhere somehow STRUCTURED so i dont go crazy... there is so much information in the net, but still what i think i lack right now as a first step is some structure..... The thing is that actually i am an architect but i have dedicated all my 90% of work to doing renderings with max and vray, and i think my renders come out OK... but i definetely want to take the next step and start producing quality compositions and images like the real pros out there. By the way, i think your work is very impressive, i have seen mostly interior renderings from you, but those are incredibly good, and i love your white bedroom video... Please let me know if you ever decide to do some Online Course!! hehe... Honestly, I think i produce good images, but i am stuck in the same things... I learned by myself, and occasionally some things from the internet, but i am sick and tired of not having an structured knowledge... I think i do some steps in a longer and less efficient way that i might do if i learned MAX and Vray correctly... I also know i have to take some time out and work on my renderings but in a LEARNING AND TESTING WAY... but working is diffiicult and consumes all my time, and i never find time to learn..., so everything i learned, i did while working on projects from WORK... In the meantime i will take your advice on the MAKINGS OF... i will start there. Thanks again. EDIT: Juraj, how many years of experience do you have? And how was your approach to your current knowledge on arch vis? Did you took some courses, or self taught and the internet? Edited September 5, 2013 by unrinoceronte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 (edited) I completely understand the need for structured mentorship under proffesional guide. It's just there's not much for it for the archviz/product viz on the market. I quite like the results I've seen from State of Art Academy in Venice, Italy. But it's bit expensive for most (though it's month long intensive course) and it's in Europe. I also like what Viscorbel is doing. His tutorials are cheap, but so complex, 8-15 hours per some ! He has good english and describes well every step he does. Literally every stepy, he doesn't skip and that is good for someone who just wants to see the whole process. Some of the "makings of" on Ronen Bekerman's site are very complex and long, for example Ludvik Koutny's or some competition finalists' like Bernard Brosdau, Bertrand Benoit, Jamie Holmes,etc. It's worth reading through all of them, you will start to see some patterns. For myself, I am completely self-taught. I am tutorial-whore though, I've stalked every bit of information I could find on internet. In the end,after going through everything others done and know (so you don't need to re-invent wheel) you still have to experiment with it by yourself, and it's sometimes enjoyable process, sometimes downright miserable. I still feel miserable even today :- ) It's neverending learning.. Heh, for tutorials, I always wanted to make them (for free), but I am such sad case of chaotic person (mostly due to my hyperactivity) that I just can't concentrate on it well. But this month I will be giving too speeches on workshops, and while I can't record that I will write that up into articles and publish it. It should concern how I setup my Max, what plugins I use and how they make things easier and how our scenes look like (modeling, lightning and post). Edited September 6, 2013 by RyderSK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamondayfan Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 I think you'll struggle to find an up to date, high end book that covers all aspects of rendering arch vis with vray and max. You'd be far better off researching each area and trying to build up a knowledge of each area, then apply it to arch vis. I prefer tutorials and "the making of..." online content. It's easy to follow and refer back to when needed. The Gnomon Workshop are a good place to start, also Digital Tutors (I haven't used them but hear good things) are good for beginners to intermediate. Viscorbel are also very good for specific tasks. I have their sofa modelling tutorials and are very comprehensive and well worth the money. The problem is arch vis is so wide and varied that it's often difficult to know where to start! Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unrinoceronte Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Juraj and Dean, thanks very much for your words and reccomendations. Definetely once the knowledge is at hand, there needs to be lots of experimentation. Thanks also for the sites and "makings of" you recommend. I think i will definetely buy some of Viscorbel, they look amazing!, and you mentioned they are very thorough, so i like that. I will research a little bit more on Gnomon and Digital Tutors, altough at first look they seem to be oriented towards more general CG things (3D characters, etc..) What do you guys think about the Tutorials or Makings Of at EVERMOTION? Are they as good and usefull as the ones you mention from Ronen Bekerman's site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Digital Tutors are very beginner oriented, although they have advanced series, it's still not what I would call "complex". Gnomon, on other hand, are quite high-level, although short, and tend to be very chaotic sometimes downright random (the old saying that someone who is professional, isn't necessary good teacher and vice versa) , they are also outside of archviz reach. Sure, lot of things overlap, but I don't think they offer what you're looking for, they have very little on rendering, and quite lot more on modeling, scene setup, VFX, compositing, etc... I did forgot Evermotion ! Maybe because I don't like the site that much :- ) But they do have excellent tutorial DVD, "Archviz training". It's very good, and will take you through whole scene setup to final image. Definitely suggest watching that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unrinoceronte Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) In Alex Roman own words... The book is coming out this 20th..: Alex Roman @3rd7th 17 Sep After several giants & windmills the path comes to it's end. Store opens this very week (20th probably). Newsletter subscribers, stay alert! Edited September 18, 2013 by unrinoceronte bad link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro Sannino Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 The Ciro's book.. I think might be good for begginers and hobbyists. But that godamn marketing is so ridicolous, it's like the worst "Dieting pills" type of scam on internet. I guess that sort of form really works for imbeciles. Hi Juraj, I'm the author of the book mentioned in the quote First of all thank you for your feedback about the sell page, I agree with you: the title need to be improved I also checked your page and really appreciated your works, just great!!!! Well, I'm here just to clarify that my work "Photography & Rendering with V-Ray" it's not a book about vray. It's a book connecting photography and vray, exclusively based on photographic concepts: the focus is totally different from other books about vray. Yes... agree... every book mention photography before to start talking of v-ray.. well, in my case I talk of photography all the time, and explore some vray function IMPLEMENTING different photographic concepts. (by the way for all options we have --> http://help.chaosgroup.com/) I tried to wrote a book interely connected, page after page. Topics are always related each others and finally the reader can get an unique vision of how to apply photography with vray, simply and efficiently. Finally I consider my book.. a book of Photography, where instead of a DSLR I just use V-Ray.. it is my little contribute Ciro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unrinoceronte Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Ciro, is good to have you here and comment about your book.... I am very interested in what you say that the book is actually more about phothographic concepts, with implementation of that in vray. That is also a thing that i was looking for. I will definetely start by buying your book. I will do that in the next couple of weeks. Not that it is the subject of this thread, or the place, but i have to agree that at least for me, and as you can see for some other people too, your marketing strategy for your Online 5SRW Course "scares" me off (sorry i dont tought of a better word, english is not my main language.)... I guess if you are doing it is because it gives you marketing results, and perhaps we are the minority, but that combined with the lack of reviews from a third party made me wonder about your online training...if it was as good as it "appeared to be". ... IF one goes just by the looks of it, i would definetely like to take it... but I have been looking around the internet, and facebook, etc for people that have taken your course to ask them for an objective review, but i have had no luck... Nonetheless, having said all that, at the end i think i will take it..hehe. I just have to get into a month where i have more free time since work is too overwhelming right now. Thanks for your presence here, hopefully next marketing campaign will be less "diet pill style" as Juraj said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Pende Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Hi! I went to Ciros site and it seems that they also have a lot of video tutorials. Ciro can you tell us a bit more on them. They seem like type "making of" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Pende Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 In Alex Roman own words... The book is coming out this 20th..: I cannot figure whats this book aboth. Vray training, making of....It has also modeing topic...modeling with max or?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro Sannino Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Hi Ciro, is good to have you here and comment about your book.... I am very interested in what you say that the book is actually more about phothographic concepts, with implementation of that in vray. Hi JD! yes ... you got exaclty the point! Book and training are basically based on the same idea: implementing photographic concepts. Book is the base with examples, and the Training is a sort of practicle lab. About thirdy part reviews I'm NOT waiting for V-Ray experts reviewing these two products. Conversely professional photographers, with strong experience in live and studio shooting can check if my teaching correspond to the best practise in the real world. (and of course it corresponds: to achieve this goal I created book and training in collaboration with professional photographers!) I firmly believe that with a strong-verystrong preparation in photography can lead to excellent results using v-ray in a simple way. Of course this is not the absolute truth, is just a way (and I'm happy that many people are loving). I'm glad you can appreciate this way Thanks Ciro Edited October 12, 2013 by cirosannino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Pende Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Ciro can you talk more aboth you video training... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro Sannino Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Ciro can you talk more aboth you video training... Hi Mario, at first: all lessons are progressive.. from beginner to expert. ATTENTION: when I wrote beginner/expert I'm NOT referring to V-Ray!!! I'm referring to lighting, materials treatments, post production techniques like professional real photographers do working with live interior or studio shooting. I implemented all these techinques in v-ray, using it in a simply, fast and essencial way. If you want more info check it out > http://www.learnvray.com/features/english.htm thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unrinoceronte Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 (edited) Yes Ciro, i also want to hear a little or lot more about your training. I hope you dont mind but since i REALLY REALLY want to take some ArchViz training, and money and time is very is limited for me, i have many questions to ask, if you have the time i will appreciate it a lot. And perhaps some other members here can find your INPUT useful. I have decided that i am ordering your book for now, but I have also researched your training a little in the web and i have the following questions: EDIT: this ended up being a way too large Post, so if you dont have much time, please answer me this first question which is the most important for me regarding your training: - Your 5SRW training at http://www.grafica3dblog.it/, how does it work? I dont understand the SUBSCRIPTION PART? why a subscription and why one year subscription? Does the training takes one year? Isnt the material available all at once? Does it work with fixed dates and times? Does it require LIVE PRESSENCE at certain fixed hours a day? Is it PRE-RECORDED videos, or live Streaming? I ask this because in my case and situation, i do not have much time during workdays because of work... so i need a training which i can take at my own PACE and time, preferably video or written, which i can pause, go backward, play again, and do it on my free time. Of course if occasionaly it requires Online realtime pressence with an instructor, i could perhaps manage it, but if it is strictly with pressence, i dont think it could work for me... - Right now as a special discount it costs $399. Is this $399 for the WHOLE training? everything you teach i will learn for that amount? Or are they Separate modules and additional costs? - Is there person to person communication with the instructor and student? - I have found many sites and facebook pages which offer the 5SRW Method, with different instructors from MEXICO, USA, ITALY, SPAIN i think..etc... Is the Online training in ENGLISH, and is it given by the same instructor (YOU?), or each "region" has its own instructor, and the training varies a little from each one? Also i noticed those INSTRUCTORS are giving classes or conferences? in some countries around the world... Is it the same training? - Can you tell me which of this topics or specific skills or subjects does your 5SRW addresses besides the Photographic approach? - An STRUCTURED method for a person with BASIC Skills in 3ds max and Vray? - At the end of the training (and of course with practice) wiil i be able to produce images like the ones you use for advertisement? (Which are very professional by the way) - the basics or even advanced features and settings of the Software needed? 3ds Max and Vray... - Will i learn how to use related PLUGINS and programs ? (say plugins for trees and vegetation, lighting, proxys, etc etc...) - Will i learn HDRI Lighting? HDRi reflections and background? - Professional looking Dusk/Sunset/Night exterior renderings? (like one of yours that has 2 small 3 or 4 floor buildings with a big square window at the top...with electric cables, and a dusk lighting and sky...) - Professional looking interiors ( i liked a lot a red bathroom rendering with a tub that you used for your advertisement) - Linear workflow (Gamma 2.2)? - Semi-Complex modelling or parametric techniques? for example for facade of buildings or parametric structures... or even for some furniture... - Vray MATERIALS creation? - MAPPING techniques (i only know how to map in a simple uvmap box parameters...) - 3D reallistic Grass (as many of the pro artist are using in their renderings...) - ARCH VIZ THEORY and composition... Lighting theory for renderings... - ADVANCED POST PRODUCTION in photoshop or after effects? I noticed many of the pros do a significant amount of work in Post... - If possible, could you point me to a couple of your best students that have taken your training? (say a facebook or website) The ones you think have significantly improve their skills. Or if not, could you show a BEFORE and AFTER rendering of some of your student work? I ask these because most of the examples that you show on your site are from Interiors made by your students, but no exteriors, and no "Before" renderings to compare their skills... - As a last thing....You have another site http://www.grafica3dblog.it/ where i can see there are many free tutorials, but everything is in italian. Any plan on doing them in english? If you think is better, i can move or open a NEW thread regarding ARCH VIZ TRAININGS and there you can give your responses, and perhaps more people here at CG architect looking for training can find it useful. There we can post all trainings available and people could compare and give advice... OK Ciro, i will be checking out this thread for your comments. Is really cool to have one on one communication with the person, creator, writer etc of something, in this case a book and course. I see you are a new member here at CG ARCHITECT. With your knowledge and training interest, would be nice to have you more active here in the Forums. Thanks. Edited October 13, 2013 by unrinoceronte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Pende Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 http://www.learnvray.com/features/english.htm Here the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro Sannino Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 - Your 5SRW training at http://www.grafica3dblog.it/, how does it work? I dont understand the SUBSCRIPTION PART? why a subscription and why one year subscription? Does the training takes one year? Isnt the material available all at once? Does it work with fixed dates and times? Does it require LIVE PRESSENCE at certain fixed hours a day? Is it PRE-RECORDED videos, or live Streaming? I ask this because in my case and situation, i do not have much time during workdays because of work... so i need a training which i can take at my own PACE and time, preferably video or written, which i can pause, go backward, play again, and do it on my free time. Of course if occasionaly it requires Online realtime pressence with an instructor, i could perhaps manage it, but if it is strictly with pressence, i dont think it could work for me... Some info for you: My video introduction: As Mario said this is the main address: http://www.learnvray.com/features/english.htm the study program (you have the link in the main page) http://www.learnvray.com/features/lv-program.zip and finally here you have FAQ http://www.learnvray.com/faq Have a nice day Ciro PS about my book thanks to your "inspiration" I started collection feedback via fb, here the link: http://www.grafica3dblog.it/libro/vray-book.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unrinoceronte Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) PS about my book thanks to your "inspiration" I started collection feedback via fb, here the link: http://www.grafica3dblog.it/libro/vray-book.htm ahh... i finished writing and pressed the wrong button and lost my comment... Anyways, thanks a lot Ciro, all the information in those links was very useful, specially the FAQ, i got there all the responses to the doubts i had. I am now 100% convinced that i will take your training. Also a conversation with a "facebook friend" of mine helped me convince. He took your training and he spoke very highly of you and your method and gave me reassurance. I am glad i gave you some "inspiration" to start collecting feedback, It is important to have Objective non biased commentaries from people, and i know those will HELP A LOT for other people like me that are doing research on the several trainings out there and those who need to make up their mind. You know, a product can promise many things and sound spectacular, but if the recommendation goes from "mouth to mouth" is super efficient, and seems more believable. Your program and examples speak for themselves, but this last extra push helped me decide. Also helps that you seem a person that is very active online and very reachable. Looking forward for the 5SRW, and your book. Edited October 19, 2013 by unrinoceronte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstudley Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thread bumb, so what did you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dialog Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Not yet released and no release date but i think it will be great... http://www.thirdseventh-book.com/ This is sold out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boymanzein Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 thanks so muach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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