Outsourcing for the far east?

[RyderSK]

Now you thrown a bit different light on your relationship with them, it was worded differently before. Under your current explanation, it seems fine, or atleast better. I agree a model is just model, trademark lies elsewhere, as now you mentioned art directing them instead of sending out a job.

 

This american/chinese thing is still oddly amusing for me. Wonder how long it will last.

 

"Think about architecture firms, Rem Koolhaas reviews all the projects out of OMA, it doesn't necessarily mean that he draws every line"

 

No need to take such sweeping example to extreme, I never said anything close to this, and no one is that slow to look at it this way. Nothing what Rem does is even remotely "out-sourcing" either and neither is it similar to what you do ;- )

Edited November 13, 2013 by RyderSK

[harryhirsch]

I am with Juraj on this one...that aint outsorcing, ""just modelling and rendering""? that is like 80% of the job. In this case you can not even put the picture on your webpage, the Chinese can and they do...""Project 1024: overseas client""

""There is nothing fundamentally wrong with running a business that outsources to any "low wage" country and sell the product into a higher wage market."" Well, you loose jobs in the ""higher wage country". We complain about General Motors and Buick because teh ship the jobs over to China and then we do the same.

And if most of the stuff is done in China you are cheating you Client..or do you lower your price now? If you send your bill to the Client the bill is still based on your normal 70 bucks per hour calculation. Yes it is fine according to law but please dont wonder if your dentist does the same and wont tell you that the crown is made in East Europe or India..because it is just business right?

[CliveG]

 

This american/chinese thing is still oddly amusing for me. Wonder how long it will last.

 

 

I know..... we should start differentiating our business models with a "Fair Trade" badge like our coffee.

 

"There was no exploitation of sweatshop labour in the production of this image...."

[RyderSK]

I know..... we should start differentiating our business models with a "Fair Trade" badge like our coffee.

 

"There was no exploitation of sweatshop labour in the production of this image...."

 

 

LOL. I just joked in Venice about labeling my work "Hand-made" because I've been shown so many plugins and scripts and I did things in fundamentally simplest way possible instead :- )

[CliveG]

""There is nothing fundamentally wrong with running a business that outsources to any "low wage" country and sell the product into a higher wage market."" Well, you loose jobs in the ""higher wage country". We complain about General Motors and Buick because teh ship the jobs over to China and then we do the same.

And if most of the stuff is done in China you are cheating you Client..or do you lower your price now? If you send your bill to the Client the bill is still based on your normal 70 bucks per hour calculation. Yes it is fine according to law but please dont wonder if your dentist does the same and wont tell you that the crown is made in East Europe or India..because it is just business right?

 

I don't think you fully read my post Harry. I clearly don't think this is right for your / our industry. If we were in the business of producing electric drills, then perhaps it is OK (personally I don't think so in that case either, but try and buy a drill that isn't made in China, even if badged as a Bosch or De Walt)

 

Anyway we work in a creative industry and I think you can't (honestly) outsource creativity. Simple. That analogy would even hold true for that dentistry crown, it is creative.

[heni30]

This american/chinese thing is still oddly amusing for me. Wonder how long it will last.

 

I think there is some precedence for these kinds of scenarios. Like Americans using the Japanese for cheap manufacturing in the 50's and 60's and then all of the sudden they have the know how and experience to just do it themselves. Then you have the Camrys and Acuras out performing American products.

 

The same thing is happening with China. They have built the required infra-structure and are making everything from apparel to electronics and gaining vast amounts of experience and knowledge. Watch out!

 

With rendering the ONLY thing missing in Chinese service is communication. If they can clear that hurdle they will have mainstream rendering beat by providing an army of renderers who can provide a quality product of any scope and timeline. They can solve this by teaming up with Chinese Americans to smooth out language and cultural difficulties. But I don't think those low prices will be around indefinitely.

 

As far as creativity goes in our field I think the vast majority of renderings being produced look the same. Just look at the gallery. After all, you're dealing with photorealism. Stylistic differences were more apparent with hand produced renderings. Of course there will always be a handful of exceptional artists but even with them people are trying to emulate their styles.

 

And a lot of clients do NOT want something that stands out - they want to see something that looks like a photograph - completely neutral.

Edited November 13, 2013 by heni30

[CliveG]

As far as creativity goes in our field I think the vast majority of renderings being produced look the same. Just look at the gallery.

 

So do you not think it's a creative industry?

 

Is that what you tell people at parties, when they ask what you do?

 

Trust me, it's a creative industry... we're not smacking in fence posts on a farm or sitting on a packaging production line... what we produce isn't finite, there is no definitively finished product that we can't improve on. Only we decide when a job is finished to our own standards. Those standards may differ between us and our artistic creativity and competence may vary, but this is, nevertheless, a creative industry.

[heni30]

I didn't say it wasn't creative - I said when your goal is photo-realism, most images are going to look very similar. In other words the creativity is behind the scenes and it's considered a virtue if the creator's hand is invisible. It is difficult but you try to make it not appear so - like with ballet.

Edited November 13, 2013 by heni30

[CliveG]

I didn't say it wasn't creative - I said when your goal is photo-realism, most images are going to look very similar. In other words the creativity is behind the scenes and it's considered a virtue if the creators hand is invisible. It is difficult but you try to make it not appear so - like with ballet.

 

I agree, after all photography itself can be very creative and even if we aspire to produce photo-realistic images - that is in itself still potentially very creative, with possibly more technical challenges than may present themselves to a conventional photographer.

 

Perhaps you were referring to originality more than creativity? And you may be right, we could be a more original industry, but as I've said in other posts; "the client is right" and if their expectations are unoriginal then we can find ourselves looking for new clients if we bombard them with incredibly original artistic images.

 

The creativity is behind the scenes, as you say, like the ballet.

 

But my fundamental premise remains that it's a dangerous path to outsource that creativity.

[alextula]

I guess when China, India and other similar countries buy all American companies and become superpowers, also will you be so as happy with them.

Maybe you can try with Spanish firms, there are professionals in my country very great, and the prices are like the Chinese or even less.

The crisis is hitting us really hard, and now, after being fully sunk, are large companies and businessmen to buy our country at ridiculous prices. All, I repeat, everything is against us after many years of thinking only about making money fast. All is not well.

Recruit your neighbors, friends, acquaintances, shop at nearby stores, do not buy large firms.

Greetings from Spain.

Edited November 13, 2013 by alextula

[Jonathan Fantucchio]

I am based in NYC in the us and I what you might call freelancer or someone maybe thinking about starting a small business. I love architectural rendering but I am not too good at it, but through my sales skills I have been able to win jobs in commercial interiors. It's harder for these interior design firms to work with outsourced since many of the materials and patterns are locally sourced and change constantly. I sometimes need to scan things in for textures. Many of these firms have expressed difficulty working with outsourced Chinese firms and believe it or not since i was always on site working and very flexible(and fairly affordable) I was able win work from companies with a sizable amount of overseas presence(mandarin speakers ect). I am mostly asked to do film work nowadays but wish i was doing more rendering(tons of young archis in NYC so not a good market).

 

Now I have a challenge:L I was contracted to document a restoration project with a short documentary on a very limited budget. I wanted to include a short animation illustrating the structural steel component. I have limited time and must arrange time-lapse, edit footage, engineer sound. So I need to find someone on a tight budget to do a structural steel model and maybe the rest of the model(its a church steeple). The Architects are also not getting paid much so they used vector works and don't even have a model, just drawings. I could break out my old textbooks and maybe figure it out but the time involved would be prohibitive. So outsourcing might be good for me since I'm a young hungry filmmaker/visualizer/marketer who needs a model made. I will render and animate and post since that's the most important part. So outsourcing could work for me. And help me grow my business in a highly competitive environment till I can hire locals.

 

Is there any network or website to find cheap modeling services particularly those with structural knowledge for a small job. How would I go about finding a good modeling. Does anyone one here have the experience to do this work.