Vray- Rendersettings for beautypass composition

[sebastiankraus]

Hi,

 

I have a pretty annoying issue with Vray Renderelements and composing them into a beautypass.

Obviously i got into this topic cause i wanted to have total control of my finalrender in postproduction.

 

Anyhow. I read like 100000000 Blogs and tutorials, sat down yesterday around 22h straight and never got a result, that was close to the rgb_color_output.

 

Thats directly leads to my question:

 

Which are the correct rendersettings, fileformats and especially colormapping sets to get the beautypass looke like the rgb_color pic in VFB?

 

In my case the composition should be:

 

[DiffuseFilter * RawGI] + [DiffuseFilter * RawLightning] + VrayReflection + VrayRefraction + VraySpecular = FINALRENDER

 

I also tried with [ + 0.2 * 1/Rawshadow] which made the result even worse!

 

Color Maping: some say tweakin the "dont affect color" option in Vray, which is same as Mode "NONE" in Vray 2.4 is necessary. This just makes no sense to me, as i used CM to clear up the burned out parts of the pic.

 

Gamma: I used 2.2, 1.0. output in Color Mapping Tab - no difference

 

FileFormat: I really did everything yesterday. PNGs, JPGs, TGAs, EXRs in all sorts of different Bit-Levels. The closest was exporting as EXR and using 2.2 Gamma-Curve on it!

 

VFB: Some tutorials adviced to turn off the "display colors in sRGB space". didnt made any difference in the composed result. It felt weird to me anyways

 

Whatever i changed - the RGBcolor result had always the same look. I didnt get there with my composition even once...

 

Im using 3ds Max Design 2014 with Vray Adv 2.4xxx

 

 

Any advices?

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Sebastian

Edited November 17, 2013 by sebastiankraus

[Devin Johnston]

This is something I've struggled with as well, I've never been able to combine raw elements in AE or PS and get what I get out of the frame buffer except when using Chaoses PD Player. It's almost as if there's an element missing, or the way they are combined changes the gamma of the images and you get a different result. I wish I could help but I wanted to say you're not the only one who struggles with this.

[sebastiankraus]

Hey Devin,

 

thanks for your reply. I at least appreciate, not feeling like a total idiot anymore.

Ill have a look at the PDplayer thing, u talked about..

 

 

 

Greets Sebastian

[Francisco Penaloza]

Hi,

One thing to consider is, First for maximum control you need to output linear, this mean at 32Bits, exr or HDR, if you check do not affect colors, this mean that the gamma that you see in your screen is with 2.2 applied but the actual render still linear 1.0 so you can do your gamma and color mapping in post.

Also VRay has different passes and all the ones that are called RAW, means that they are not affected by your exposure or color mapping, so they are the pure image, so if you have a RAW GI and a VRay GI, they will output with different.

If you want to use RAW Reflection you need to output also the Reflection filter, so you can control the intensity of your RAW reflection.

So why so many passes and what should I use?

Well this depend, of your workflow, usually in High end production environment they rebuild the whole scene in post using Fusion, Nuke and what not, or even re-light the scene. They want as much control as possible, then RAW passes make seance. For Arch Viz, I think this is a little to much. Yes we have last minute color changes and reflection refraction adjustment to do but, they can be easily managed with no RAW passes.

[sebastiankraus]

Hey.

 

So - just to get you right...

 

1. We have to output exr's in 32 float to have that set correct.

2. We dont have to use VrayRaws. So we just use GI, Reflection,Lightning, and so on Renderpasses in "usual" form? and still have enough room to adjust whatever we might have to in professional workflow? Sounds clear to me. I like that sort of keeeping it more stripped down and simple!

3. According to color mapping: is it possible to get these passes out - the right way - with CM still turned "on"? Or do we always have to keep everything as clean as possible and do it in post to get "correct" results? To me CM its a somehow more handy way to get burned areas fixed more quickly...

 

Thanks Sebastian

[benjaminbogaert]

Major bump to this thread, I have been searching for some really useful composting tutorials for months now. Are there some general elements that are pretty much universal? I as well am looking for a good workflow in post-production.

 

Sorry for Hijacking your thread Sebastian.

[sebastiankraus]

Hey Benjamin,

 

if its "just" about tutorials, theorycrafting and general compositing stuff, i rly got into alot and i think my firefox library might be pretty decent according to that.

 

For me it was more about explicit goes/nogoes to get a lets say very close beautypass to my rgb result.

 

What are u looking for exactly related to postproduction?

[benjaminbogaert]

Ty, Well things like, when I use a shadow/reflection element I get alot of noise, overall the elements are noisy. Even though the final render comes out crisp. Things like what element goes over which element and how to blend them. When to use a RAW element, basically about everything

 

Also, I have a pretty good understanding about linear workflow and use it in all my work, but still a bit fuzzy about 32bit workspace and why to use .exr etc.

 

Any tutorials or info you can share would be much appreciated!

[sebastiankraus]

Good "morning"...

 

When it comes to 32bit hdr, i think, Francisco pointed that out correctly...Had i new try, rendering just a few elements out. Theyre put out in 1.0. So adding a curve, setting 2.2 gets us right to the vfb-result

Compositing Links:

 

Theorycrafting:

 

http://www.vfxpedia.com/index.php?title=FAQ/Combining_3D_Passes

 

Basic tutorials:

 

http://www.workshop.mintviz.com/tutorials/compositing-the-v-ray-render-elements-using-adobe-photoshop/

http://cg.tutsplus.com/tutorials/chaos-group-vray/compositing-v-ray-render-layers-in-photoshop/

http://vray.info/tutorials/basiccomping/

[sebastiankraus]

Hmm.. Some of my answers never get into this?!

 

First of all thanks to Francisco. Your Statement about not getting TOO deep into all the elements made sense to me.

Also the 32bit Float exr (is always put out in gamma 1.0) + 2.2 gamma-curve seems like at least the most comfortable and simple way to be.

 

I did a stripped down composition, which im satisfied with. BUT im not sure, if its correct to MULTI the GI and then just ADD LIGHTNING? At least it looks decent to me... Ill attache that one with layersettings.

 

 

@Benjamin:

Theorycrafting:

 

http://www.vfxpedia.com/index.php?title=FAQ/Combining_3D_Passes

Tutorials:

 

http://www.workshop.mintviz.com/tutorials/compositing-the-v-ray-render-elements-using-adobe-photoshop/

 

http://vray.info/tutorials/basiccomping/

 

http://cg.tutsplus.com/tutorials/chaos-group-vray/compositing-v-ray-render-layers-in-photoshop/http://

[ericgardiner]

Check this tutorial out.

[notamondayfan]

Sebastian, what software are you using for post work?

 

I use After Effects, and I have a set-up that uses the render elements to rebuild to the RGB pass perfectly.

[Devin Johnston]

Sebastian, what software are you using for post work?

 

I use After Effects, and I have a set-up that uses the render elements to rebuild to the RGB pass perfectly.

 

Any chance you could share your formula?

[sebastiankraus]

I posted 3 answers today and NONE had gone into this thread.... moderators?

[Devin Johnston]

Maybe your having an issue with your internet connection, I haven't experienced any issues today.

[sebastiankraus]

It told me something like "moderators have to look over" ...

[benjaminbogaert]

Yeah, forum gets buggy as hell sometimes.

 

@Dean: any chance you can share your flow.

[notamondayfan]

Typical Max LWF (2.2) saved out as exr files from vray frame buffer. (VFB sRGB button pressed)

 

In AE, typical structure to layers -

 

Self Ill (add)

Spec (add)

Reflection (Add)

Refraction (add)

(Raw light * diffuse) Add

(Raw GI * diffuse)

 

The key with AE is in the project settigs to work in 32 bit, and tick "Blend colours using 1.0 Gamma", otherwise they won't blend correctly.

[benjaminbogaert]

Mind if I ask, why use AE instead of Photoshop? Also is this something I could do in lightroom?

[notamondayfan]

AE fully supports 32 bit floating images.

 

Also once you have your passes linked to the AE file, every time you re-render the AE file automatically re-loads the new passes.

 

I still use PS for re-touching, compositing, and everything else, but make my main adjustments such as light, colour, etc in AE first.

[sebastiankraus]

Ill try again.

 

First of all thanks to Francisco, who pointed out, that its not necessary to get THAT deep into everything forr Arch Viz. I thought it over and he might be right.

 

But still... to me it was just about knowing where everything comes frrom and goes to - just in case ill need it one day.

 

My conclusion was, to export the "simple" renderelements in exr 32bit float - Colormapping applied, Gamma Output 2.2 in Vray Settings and Mode Cm YES, gamma NO, cause exrs export Gamma 1.0 anyways it looked like to me?!

 

I like the result in this case. The beautypass is close to the rbgcolorrender.

 

BUT im not sure, if its correct, to MULTI GI and then just ADD Lightning?

 

the pic solves the "which program for post"-question now too

 

[Devin Johnston]

Are there any issues with file sizes or resolution restrictions in AE, I've never imported anything that's 5000 pixels wide before.

[sebastiankraus]

Ah now some links i catched - just in case someone might them still needful.

 

Theorycrafting: http://www.vfxpedia.com/index.php?title=FAQ/Combining_3D_Passes

 

Tutorials: http://cg.tutsplus.com/tutorials/chaos-group-vray/compositing-v-ray-render-layers-in-photoshop/

 

http://www.workshop.mintviz.com/tutorials/compositing-the-v-ray-render-elements-using-adobe-photoshop/

[notamondayfan]

Are there any issues with file sizes or resolution restrictions in AE, I've never imported anything that's 5000 pixels wide before.

 

Yes, it can be slow when using large resolutions at 32bit. AS works differently to PS in that it constantly reads the files, rather than storing them to the file like PS does.

 

Exporting a 5k image can also take a few minutes. Be sure to step away from your PC at this point, as sometimes even browsing forums can crash AE, or make it render very slow.

 

For me, the flexibility of AE out weighs the slowness, you've just gotta get use to it. Saying that though, apparently CS6 was suppose to be faster (I'm on CS5) so speed might have been improved further in CC.

 

Dean

[notamondayfan]

@ Sebastian, put your raw lighting pass, and copy a diffuse pass into a folder (diffuse at the bottom), change raw light to Multiply. Then change the folders blending mode to Add.