Tommy L Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I like it, I just think its capacity is a couple of years behind what it could be. It sounds like the RAM issue is being addressed, but the MB's need to be carrying more cores. I know, Im being an ass. But after looking at the specs, I'd still buy the individual small form factor nodes with 4930's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/matxemc.pdf http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet62/oet62rev.pdf I don't know if there are any official norms or if a certification is needed. I don't think this applies to computer enclosures, kind of confusing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Today I tried to fit mATX board but its impossible I'm afraid, this will require too much redesigning and there is no way to do inside the actual helmer drawers, you would have to remove the drawers and slide the motherboard directly into helmer shelf. There is about 1mm clearance for the mATX to go inside. I like to keep renderpockets inside each individual metal drawer as it adds extra support and protection. Will see how this goes, maybe sometime later I can dedicate time to redesign but I am getting too busy with work again. Edited February 15, 2015 by artmaknev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) I like it, I just think its capacity is a couple of years behind what it could be. It sounds like the RAM issue is being addressed, but the MB's need to be carrying more cores. I know, Im being an ass. But after looking at the specs, I'd still buy the individual small form factor nodes with 4930's. 4930k 3.40GHz (passmark 13097) is not that much better than 4790k 4.0Ghz 4.4Ghz with Turbo (passmark 11238) that fits inside mini-ITX board and cost almost half the price of 4930k. 4930k total 20.4Ghz vs 4790k total 17.6Ghz = 4930k is only 1.15 times faster (is it really worth extra $250?) Also 4930k operates at 130W, its a very energy hungry CPU, 4790k needs only 88W, the whole node with 4790k uses about same power consumption as just one 4930k CPU, so overtime you would pay more for electricity. Edited February 15, 2015 by artmaknev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Well, the value what you buy with your money is subjective for many ways. The 4930K especially is not that good of a choice, as the 4820K gives roughly the same performance for little or no money over the 4790K. Also, there is some "freedom" calculating your above "aggregate" GHz figures, as the 4790K doesn't turboboost all 4 cores to 4.4GHz for prolonged time (4*4.4 = 17.6) and if it was then it should be 6*3.9 = 23.4 for the 4390K (both haswell, and same for the 4820K that also has 3.9 turbo, but again, in reality you don't get max turbo on all cores simultaneously, rather on 1-2). As for the consumption: consumption kicks in @ full load. When idling, the difference is nowhere that big - both platforms should idle at around 25-30W, and that is total system consumption with a dedicated GPU & SSD attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 True that, GHz is not the best comparison, passmark comparison is more accurate. On the other note, what are your thoughts about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 well I guess is better than this ;P http://i.imgur.com/Kq6kuEq.jpg http://www.xodustech.com/images/bitcoinminer/large/miner-02.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 well I guess is better than this ;P http://i.imgur.com/Kq6kuEq.jpg http://www.xodustech.com/images/bitcoinminer/large/miner-02.jpg Those look insane, must be the bitcoin miners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 True that, GHz is not the best comparison, passmark comparison is more accurate. On the other note, what are your thoughts about this? Doesn't worth it imho. I can get this GPGPU density in less volume than a Helmer. I am guessing that you are sticking with the full-itx-system per drawer plan, when you can do 3-4 cards per ATX board in a midi case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 The only reason I thought about this new idea is because of this new GTX970 card, its so small and size wise will fit into existing node configuration I have with the mini-ITX board, but just need to get server psu. So this is just an extra option for anybody who already has Helmer setup, all I have to do is change the back face design to hold the GPU and the server PSU, which is not that hard at all. There is just the issue with Octane licensing... I believe thats what many use GPU rendering with, their licensing requires 1 standalone version for each new node, so it will be extra $300 per render node. But, yes, its better to have 4 GPU on 1 full ATX mobo in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elipan Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't get it - how exactly its cheaper then 1 single Xeon machine? You need to buy Windows 8.1 Pro per node. You need to buy V-Ray RN per node. Plus you need to wait for all nodes to join the render. If its a 2K image its not a long time. But what if my client wants to print it on a 4x3 meters billboard? or an A0 sheet? Its not a 2K image anymore. Nodes take long to connect sometimes (the vraylog adds them, but it takes a long time until the actual buckets are there). On the other hand, if you Xeon is also your workstation - all this beast power is available at once. PLUS Less noise. Thinner power bill. Less computers to clean for dust. (I saw these halmer pockets and I bet that after 3 months it will be dusty as fook. DELL/HP service - better then troubleshoot yourself. Its better to blame the manufacturer and make him pay the damage. And less computers to monitor, support, update (OS, plugins etc) = time saved = money saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Well of-course if you have about $10k at your disposable to buy Dual Xeon machine right now, then this is the best option for you! With renderpockets, you can start with $800 investment and already have 1 functional render node, then get another one next month, its also best for beginners starting in the industry. Windows 8.1 pro license is $130 for system builders, and vray 10 node license is just $690, not too pricey and its always good to have extra node licenses for future. Dust is not really an issue with a dust filter, I had this running for about 6 months, and almost no dust, I think the back fan pushes most of the dust out. Not sure about the 4x3 meter renders, I have to test it, the highest I went with renderpockets was 8000px, they took about 10 minutes to kick in into the rendering, and then rendered smoothly without an issue. But seriously, you don't have to render billboard size renders every month, and if you do you can probably afford Dual Xeon beast every month for that! The most major con for Dual Xeon beast machine is what if something happens? your work stops. Edited February 19, 2015 by artmaknev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 A little breakthrough today, found one mATX mobo which supports 32GB RAM and fits inside renderpocket case flawlessly! Will assemble one node this weekend, and share more pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 My excitement has abated Im afraid. 16G limit is no good for me. Looks like Im buying more Shuttles... Now supports mATX 32GB RAM board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 A little breakthrough today, found one mATX mobo which supports 32GB RAM and fits inside renderpocket case flawlessly! Will assemble one node this weekend, and share more pics: Thought I've advised you toward that in my 1st or 2nd post in this threads =). Fight on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thanks dtolios, I was just looking at the wrong mATX boards, many of them have various sizes, finally found one that fits! But should've tried it when you told me many weeks ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Now supports mATX 32GB RAM board Woohoo! Taking orders yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Woohoo! Taking orders yet? If interested, it is on indiegogo at the moment, look for renderpockets. I need to update that campaign with mATX support and maybe GPU support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 For $500 I get the 6 drawers and assembly kit and the software. I supply the Helmer cabinet, the PC's. That right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 For $500 I get the 6 drawers and assembly kit and the software. I supply the Helmer cabinet, the PC's. That right? Yes, for $500 + Shipping, you get 6 drawers with 6 front faceplates of your choice (black or white, minimal or premium), plus all the nuts and bolts and 4 fan grills, plus the free software. The only extra things you need to buy are ethernet adapter, power switch, and xspc temp display (display is only if you choose premium faceplate), and ethernet adapter is optional, you can simply run the cable from mobo to your switch without the adapter, the cable goes right thru the cutout for the adapter in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numerobis Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I don't think this applies to computer enclosures, kind of confusing.. ??? http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/matxemc.pdf "This document offers electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) design suggestions for a microATX form factor chassis" 2.5 Chassis Considerations The principle function of the chassis, with respect to EMC, is to contain the EMI generated within. This is accomplished by providing a tight enclosure. Metal plating, seams, and aperture sizes are important chassis features that affect EMI control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmaknev Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I think this answers the FCC stuff, It doesn't affect enclosure sales, only if I sold assembled PC I would need to get certification. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/56549/emi-rfi-emissions-and-computer-cases Maybe I will make the front holes smaller a bit for the fan vents as you suggested earlier. But also, I had helmer for almost 2 years before I did the renderpockets, and during that span it was seating near TV and phone, and there was no issue at all. I think the fact that each node is inside metal drawer and each drawer is inside a bigger metal box cuts down most of the emissions. This case comes to mind, its just nothing but holes and its being sold for long time, there are also so many cases online with weird holes and materials, I don't think case itself requires the FCC regulation: http://www.mini-box.com/M350S-universal-mini-itx-enclosure Its probably impossible to test all the possible configuration in a computer case, it would take many years as new components are released, then the cases will never be sold... Edited February 20, 2015 by artmaknev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosgranados Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 A little breakthrough today, found one mATX mobo which supports 32GB RAM and fits inside renderpocket case flawlessly! Will assemble one node this weekend, and share more pics: any updates on the Micro ATX ?? did it work? and whould you think this could work for cooling? http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Hydro-Performance-Liquid-Cooler/dp/B00A0HZMGA/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1425002262&sr=1-2&keywords=corsair+water+cooling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elipan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 any updates on the Micro ATX ?? did it work? and whould you think this could work for cooling? http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Hydro-Performance-Liquid-Cooler/dp/B00A0HZMGA/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1425002262&sr=1-2&keywords=corsair+water+cooling I think water cooling would be a waste of time and money on such system. AFAIK its meant for sort of aggressive overclocking, and I doubt you will overclock you render machine - stability is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadkaiser Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 WC would not necessary be a bad idea.. $50 per Water block + pump + 2 x 480 + fans + tube = $ 350 + cpu Blocks Like sure you dropping a bit more $ but you would get a few more 100Mhz out of the cpu But I suspect that when time and effort come into it the additional build cost will not be worth the extra power WC is certainly only for enthusiasts. On another note this might be an idea for people who like quite pc / Render node http://shop.aquacomputer.de/index.php?cPath=62_63_64&XTCsid=03lc6hi2q4gv9e68luesacsscbs5q87e Its a controller which can handle 20+ fans according to temps, dT, ect useful if you want a quite system! Just an idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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