erikbroberg Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hi, I am about to pull the trigger on the BOXX slim 15 inch with 3k display, 2.8 overclocked GHz up to 4.0, 16gb DDR, dual SSD, and NVIDIA 2100m. HOWever, I see that the new macbook has Retina display, 2.8 overclocked (but not the same as BOXX apparently), Flashdrive (allegedly the same as SSD), 16gb DDR, and NVIDIA GE force 750 (which is not workstation approved). Currently I have the Dell Precision 6800 that I got for 2700 dollars with IDIA 4100m and 16 gb ram with FHD, and an SATA HD; however the graphics are god awful and everything looks pixelated, I have tried everything from reinstallation to adjusting settings and I just think the display is terrible. At the end of the day a laptop should be portable which the 6800 is not. I am a student who rides his bike everyday so I'm returning it for one of the above options. SO the question is BOXX or Macbook Pro? Here are the awful graphics I am getting from my DELL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You're needlessly looking for the most expensive solution. The BOXX is especially ignore-worthy. It's the same i7-4710HQ that you will find in 9999+ other slim laptops on market. Because there is no other chip to choose from that fits the cooling capacity of slim factor laptops. + 1500 dollars on top compared to similar-specked laptops across market (even from regular brands like Dell, Lenovo). If not driver upgrade solved your display issues, you might then just find the display itself underwhelming, it's only basic TN panel with grainy anti-reflex coating, not exactly something that pairs well with the pricetag of workstation-grade laptop like M6xxx-series. "Workstation approved" is something you can freely ignore, as it's marketing claim and has almost no meaning today, esp. in CGI niche like rendering and working with general apps like 3dsMax and Photoshop, that run perfectly well on any modern-day DX11 mainstream card. In fact, even low-end GPU like 750M (used often in slim laptops) can end up outperforming that Quadro inside your apps of choice. Very few specific CAD applications benefit from the extended driver support enabled architecture of Quadro, and no, Autocad is not one of them :- ). So are the other advantages of Quadro like full 14bit LUT support for precise color-grading (very useless with the laptop display anyway) or double float precision for precise calculations in finance or medicine industry. As you see, no benefit for you. So no need to concern with this. The MacbookPro is nice, my girlfriend Veronika has the very previous generation (the first slimmer variant) of your mentioned model, purely out of vanity reasons. We run Windows 8.1 only on it, not dual-boot :- ) As a laptop, it's again just as good as any other with similar specs (i7, glossy IPS display, SSD, slim body). You should rather prioritize how you plan do use the laptop. Slim laptops are excellent for take-anywhere type of work, but they come with limitations of poor cooling (not best idea to render on these 24+ hours), limited memory options (I have yet to see more than 2 dimms slots, ie. 16GB ram),etc. If it would be your sole workstation, I would be wary, but it can be used like that. Your original pick (M6800) is regular workstation, with far better cooling, more option to stock components (supports even 6-core mobile chips), but obviously there are higher-end models and it can go into very expensive territory. Since you write your plan on riding bike everyday with your laptop than the slim laptops fit the bill. Dell XPS15 is pretty much identical copy of MacbookPro15, with exception of running Windows natively (preferable if you plan on working with 3dsMax, if not, then it doesnt matter) and probably being cheaper. But there are more choices like this. Whatever laptop you choose, have you thought of keeping a regular 24+" monitor in school you can connect your laptop to ? Few people do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryannelson Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You might run into problems with the retina display if you run it through bootcamp or parallels. If the programs you're using to natively support the high density display, all your icons graphics will be doubled in resolution and they look terrible. When the retina first came out (I bought one) and even Adobe didn't yet support the display and PS, AI, ID looked like crap. Don't quote me on this though, maybe someone can chime in... but it's something to consider for sure. That being said, my rMBP saved my butt in school. Such an awesome machine. I also dislike the Windows environment, so a mac is my preference. a MBP is also a sexy design and high quality build, and to me that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why not spend $150 on a nice bike rack/bag? Heck, you could even buy a car instead of a Boxx laptop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Thank you all of you for your replies. @jurak I agree with you that M6800 is the best machine and I really like it if the display wasn't so grainy looking. It feels nice and I love the number pad. As of now I have been using a 13in macbook with 16gb of ram for the last two years in School running RHINO, Grasshopper, Revit with no issues and I know that has the integrated card. I would definitely be using bootcamp with the new macbook if I can get it as I am leaning that way now due to the portability reasons as well as the educational discount which is great. I assume that the graphics card will be a step up from my previous integrated 13 inch mbp, but I wonder if the NVIDIA GE 750m will be able to handle a bit of 3ds max. Also, I have heard that expanding a laptop to 32GB of ram is really not worth it as the SSD and the GHz are far more important. Really though I would love to know if I should have the Quadro if I am Rendering very much with Vray and using Rhino all day long and Max to some extent. @Ryan - I have heard about those issues as well, but students at school seem to be running the programs without complaints although I have not checked with them as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Also, I have heard that expanding a laptop to 32GB of ram is really not worth it as the SSD and the GHz are far more important. Each is important in its own way. You don't know about memory until you ran out of it. Which isn't hard these days given complex 3dsMax scene, or multitasking (having 3dsMax open while also Revit, and multiple big files in Photoshop, as well as browsing with 150 Chrome tabs,etc..). You also can't just upgrade memory from 16 to 32. In most slim laptops, the memory is either soldered to motherboard, or in 2 udimm slots, each only accepting 8GB modules. There is no way around this. Sometimes even the chipset itself has upper limit. I wonder if the NVIDIA GE 750m will be able to handle a bit of 3ds max GT750M is completely fine for 3dsMax. The whole viewport speed experience in latest Max version depends more on intelligent (if sometimes annoying) progressive display of meshes. And it is more than fine for Rhino&Grasshopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Thank you. Makes sense. Maybe I should just stay put with M6800 as I got a great deal on it, but it doens't have a turbo charged 2.8GHz whatever that means and if that really makes much of a difference. 7 lbs vs. 4.35 lbs... I think Apple may win as far as portability and power. Has worked for me in their lesser state for two years in music production and 3d modeling so I assume a step up would be... well, a step up even without NVIDIA. I heard an old wives tale that more than 16GB of Ram is really not necessary in Architecture modeling (not the same for Rendering), so whether that's true or not I dunno. Thanks again for all your continued help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I just would like to add some input, from experience and technical knowledge. Yes BOXX computers are expensive, so Apple computers are, more than they should, it is debatable but compared to "Same specs" computers such DELL, Lenovo and so on yes they seems pricey. DELL build very good portable works stations, but when screen matter, they don't get it right all the time. There is some great portable laptops but they put the cheap TN panel as mentioned by Juraj and they just kill the whole deal; you need to study that carefully. Having said that, a fast judgement for capabilities of a Quadro portable chip to a GTX chip seems a little unfair. Yes not all the software need all the options that a Quadro chip has to offer, but the heat and power consumption make a big difference, mostly in a portable machines. Mac's are all great a nice, but the heat they produce in high performance task is just insane, I remember my last MBP I could not have it seat in my lap if I was playing around with 3D Max. also after several hour of renderings, a DELL portable works station will perform fine and not lagged like a MBP. The more important thing for you IMHO is what you really need, and forget about how cool it looks. REVIT is single thread app so when faster CPU the better, not as many CPU you have. RAM will vary depending scene complexity, but if you are an student, 16 GB should satisfy. New MAC's do not let you upgrade RAM later on everything should come from factory. Weight in a "portable" machine it is a important factor, but when you analyze all the specs you find that sadly, so far, you can not have everything at once. You need to see what's better fit your needs. my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 but it doens't have a turbo charged 2.8GHz whatever that means Yes it does, same CPU. Boxx just has talent of marketing something like it's their invention :- ) Every intel cpu has turbo-clock feature, which can go up to 3.5+ GHz per single core if performance demands it, or less if all cores are in game. I heard an old wives tale that more than 16GB of Ram is really not necessary in Architecture modeling (not the same for Rendering) Yea it's completely fine. I wasn't advocating the need for 32, just that you won't be able to do so as upgrade if you would ever potentially need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Having said that, a fast judgement for capabilities of a Quadro portable chip to a GTX chip seems a little unfair. Yes not all the software need all the options that a Quadro chip has to offer, but the heat and power consumption make a big difference, mostly in a portable machines. Mac's are all great a nice, but the heat they produce in high performance task is just insane, I don't think it's unfair, Quadro's seeming quality still stem from their rather mythical reputation of past years, which most people can't get over, even though they lack any evidence supported argument in favour of it. Quadro K2100M is actually very similar card as GT750M when concerning performance and heat output. It's Kepler based GK106 with 576@ 667MHz Cuda cores, while GT750 is GK107 with 384@967 MHz. The latter has 35-40W output, while the Quadro has 55W, thus making it slightly hotter card, although only marginally. The performance advantage due to drivers for OpenGL viewports has been proven pretty negligible (for example at Dimitrious benchmark on his blog) in most apps. http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K2100M.98900.0.html http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-750M.90245.0.html MacbookPro does get hot, but so does every slim laptop at its spec. Portable workstations (or huge gaming laptops like Alien...ugh) manage this quite better, but the difference is in their cooling which they have space for, not used components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Thank you once more! Seems like Boxx is not necessary. Gotta decide what to do about this monitor on my Dell if I keep it. Either that or switching to the new MBP. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't think it's unfair, Quadro's seeming quality still stem from their rather mythical reputation of past years, which most people can't get over, even though they lack any evidence supported argument in favour of it. At the beginning of my post I said that I was giving opinion based in technical knowledge and experience, because at the end each user is different. Quadros been working fine for me for years, I tried several times replace them with GTX but they do not give the same performance. More pixellated lines, more flickering on faces or ghosting in small or far objects, all this in 3D Max, Cinema 4d and AutoCAD my main softwares. Yes the GT750 is very similar the Quadro K2100M but does not outperform the Quadro how you can see in the links you posted. But the margen is so minimal that in that case the money will do the difference, but again, my experience is different so I would rather go with the Quadro, some way some how better viewport performance. MacbookPro does get hot, but so does every slim laptop at its spec. Portable workstations (or huge gaming laptops like Alien...ugh) manage this quite better, but the difference is in their cooling which they have space for, not used components. to me this is the important point, that if you want it slim, you need to sacrifice some battery life and performance, if you want it reverse, it wont be slim. my old MBP was good, but it got really hot at touch and after long rendering, stay with a laggy performance, then compare to a DELL Laptop precision workstation, it barely get hot, under long renderings (Corona render) and over all performance it feel better, but it is way thinker than my old MBP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryannelson Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thank you once more! Seems like Boxx is not necessary. Gotta decide what to do about this monitor on my Dell if I keep it. Either that or switching to the new MBP. Thanks guys! I just bought an Asus pb278q (27" for $499 CDN on sale) and it's amazing, very close in quality with my 2013 27" imac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Hi, Thanks again for all of the replies and advice. I have decided to purchase the Dell M4800 due to the fact that I can get the QHD screen. This machine has monster specs, but I'd love it if someone could review them and give me an opnion so I don't make any mistakes. I believe this comp will be the most powerful mobile solution I can find since I am still in school unless I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to make a mistake. It is strange that everyone is saying dell is cheaper. This m4800 I have configured is more than a MacBook Pro! That's why I wonder if this 2.9 CPU + nvidia 2100m is better than boxx or mbp. Anyone think the 2.9 is worth 200 bucks more than the 2.8? At least the m4800 is smaller Than the beast of the m6800 I had before but still thicker than apple. It still gets hot btw when rendering. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 bump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Strange, I was 100perc. confident I wrote something...but I don't see that reply anywhere :/ Specwise it's ultimate machine, and with ability to upgrade to 32gb ram, it's very versatile and futureproof. Not much to oppose...if you can pay the price. The 15" 3200px IGZO panel receives mixed reviews. It has arguably great brightness and color clarity, but seems to suffer slightly from fuzziness as well (probably the anti-glare coat, but perhaps this is something to simply live with, either it's beautifully crystal clear, but hard to work with for extented time, or you sacrifice the clarity for anti-reflectice properties and work without issues). Also, 3k 15" might be troublesome for applications that don't scale well, leading to DPI issues, most commonly referred to in reviews. No chance to demo this laptop somewhere ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Thank you Juraj, I wish I could demo this comp but they are all custom. The closest demo I got was my previous m6800. The QHD screen should be better than the previous FHD. I just wonder about whether this comp is too expensive because with these specs nearly all competitors are of similar price range. Even Lenovo. Is the 2.9 much faster than the 2.8? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The math is exactly as you would expect, roughly 3perc. faster ;- ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The math is exactly as you would expect, roughly 3perc. faster ;- ). I loled... But it is actually 3.57% - perfectly tangible & totally worth's the monies. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Precision-M4800-Notebook.104416.0.html Have you read through this ? It's very comprehensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well 3 percent faster certainly does not warrant a 280 dollar upgrade! I will see if there are any stores around that have a QHD and try it out. Also what portable machines do you and your coworkers use? (it's ok if this is confidential Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 None really, in sense that I never particularly learned to work on one. I do have thin 17" gaming ultrabook from MSI, which ends up being used for watching movies over on vacation, and MacbookPro, whose beauty charms the eyes of clients. During college I simply brought 24" monitor and full tower to my dorm room. Not practical as I often ended up staring blindly during classes or left as soon as I could (or did not even arrive..) but far more comfortable and cheaper. But I understand the need for good one in more nomadic lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Tolios Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 My prev. office got 3-4 decked-out HP ZBook 17 workstations and they had issues with random crashes & mediocre support. I did not use them personally for prolonged time as I was working on a HP Z tower workstation (no issues). They were pretty fast (and big, and heavy with a huge power-brick - like all fast laptops with dedicated GPUs) but still I would not recommend the particular ones as I was not impressed enough performance wise, and the support definitely wasn't there to warrant the price diff. over a multimedia / gaming laptop with similar performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbroberg Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well then I suppose this has all been sorted. The MBP is the best band for buck and I can attest to its durability and lack of issues. It gets hot but so did the M6800. Unless I get the Dell m4800 with a 3.0 CPU then I'll stick with MBP due to the fact that the NVIDIA card is minimally different. My biggest qualm is the stupid control key lol as well as the lack of a number pad. Anyway, you can't have it all. Also I get a student discount. You guys are saints and best of luck in the new year! @Juraj - yes I have seen that article and I am surprised that the M4800 only scored a 6.8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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