Some advice on building a new Workstation -- 3d modeling and rendering

[Gabriella_A]

Hi guys,

 

I'm here to ask for some good advice to buy a new workstation in order to upgrade my little office.

 

I have an I7 3820 with 24 gb ram, GTX 980 and 128 SSD ( and 1 TB Hdd)

 

I need to upgrade , in order to have more rendering power...

I work mostly with 3ds max and Corona Render (and some vray). PS, Lightroom .

 

The principal problem is that I've changed the video card and added some ram to my ws some months ago, and after lots of problems I've discovered that the motherboard had a faulted slot, so I've had to stick to 24 gb ram.

 

Now I need some more rendering power in order to cover some new jobs ..and I'm a bit confused.

 

Should I buy a double Xeon render node and continue using my old ws to model...

 

or It would be better to buy another I7 (5820? 5930?) , with 32 gb Ram, and use my old ws as a render node?

In this last case I will for sure save some money (I could move the video card to the new ws and buy a very cheap one for the other) and could think to buy a Xeon node in the future when my good old ws would die or became too old (i'm a bit worried about the dead ram slot...)

 

Please help.

[artmaknev]

Get totally new workstation and use your old pc as a render node.

 

Its not a dead memory slot, I think your old motherboard only supports up to 24GB Ram.

[Gabriella_A]

Thanks you for your speed reply..

 

I don't think that was a limit of the mother board...

After the upgrade my pc had LOTS of problems, continuos crashes in lots of situations (blue screen every now and then) and was freezing without gaving to me the possibility of Control/alt/canc.

 

My old hardware seller (because I don't want to see it anymore) was unable to understand the problem... I made a memtest (o_o) and had thousand of errors.

 

 

In case of a new WS, the I7 5820 is good enough? Three years ago I've made the choice to pick a more powerful processor to have a durable machine , and that was a good choice. What is the best choice in terms of cores/money/speed ?

 

thanks

Gaby

[artmaknev]

Have you tried to clean install windows again on your old machine? It should fix all the blue screen issues.

 

5820k is a good choice for the money, thats for sure, but you won't see much of a speed increase comparing to your old cpu (I7 3820) which is still a very capable CPU.

 

If you look around the posts, almost every week there is same topic as yours, it depens what is your budget.

[Gabriella_A]

Thanks Art,

 

I've read lots of thread alredy

 

I've tried anything on my machine, clean re-installing, new drivers.... only when I've move off the ram slot, all was smooth and perfect again...

 

I know that the gain in terms of speed it's not huge... that was my first concern... and cause my idea of picking instead a dual xeon machine...

[Nikolaos M]

TS's motherboard is obviously a X79 that supports up to 64gb if it has 8 ram slots. If it has 4 slots (some cheap models have 4, and if I recall correctly, the Rampage IV Formula from the high end mobos, has also 4), it supports up to 32gb.

 

@ Gabriella_A You should mention the model of your motherboard and the type of cpu cooling that you are using at this moment. A 3820 with a X79 and a 980 is a pretty decent setup to use as a WS, imho. In your place, I would probably keep the current setup as a workstation with a generous ssd upgrade (newer, if it's old, and bigger in space). If your moterboard is still good (beside the ram slot failure) and your cpu cooler is efficient, you could overclock the 3820 with a combination of multi and base clock increase. There is a lot of feedback in the internet about this stuff. That could give your cpu a decent boost in terms of per core performance, that is crucial for your main tasks (modeling etc), with the exception of rendering, where multi-threaded performance is determinant and of course the 3820 with its 4c/8t would certainly be inferior to a 6c/12c cpu or a 10c/20t Xeon of the LGA 2011.

 

As for the render node you are planning to build, please mention your total budget and I'm sure you will get some good advice in this thread about how you could get the best performance for you budget.

 

But, as a general idea, it's doesn't make sence to build a new WS with an oc'able 6c/12t cpu for modeling/designing tasks and keep a 4c/8t cpu for rendering. I think you should try the oposite.

 

Wait for more (professional) opinions, of course:).

[Gabriella_A]

Thank you Nikolaos.

 

My mother board is an ASUS P9X79 , don't know what type of pc cooling I have...

 

Sure the SSD is small, but there is obiovously the SO on it , and reistalling all it's a pain ... XD

 

I'm writing here 'cause I will sure have very good advice, as I've had in the past...

 

My budget? Well, I would like to have some more rendering power . If I should buy a new ws, I'd like not to spend more than 1500 euro... Buying a xeon render node sure will cost me more... 3000 at least, I suppose.

My principal concern is about my actual ws and its "faulted" mother board.

[artmaknev]

Have you considered just replacing your motherboard? That will save you alot of money, so you can buy a better render node and still use your current ws with a new motherboard.

 

It has to be exactly same motherboard, I don't think you will need to re-install OS again.

[Dimitris Tolios]

Easiest upgrade is to swap the 4C 3820 for a 6C 3930K or preferably 4930K, both if which you can get used for a good price these days.

 

If you have to have more RAM, replacing the mobo too is the only option if you are sure one of your dimm slots is faulty. If 24GB

 

Going s2011-3 and use the current as a node is not a bad idea but if you need more RAM for the node, again, you will have to replace the mobo.

[Gabriella_A]

Hi Dimitri...

 

so you say that with less money I could upgrade to a 4930 with 6 cores ...instead of the 5820...(what is the differecnce with the 3930?)

 

I've had a offer with a I7 5960 (8 cores), that would cost rough 600 euro more than the 5820... The speed gain worth the price?

 

One more question... Better to use 2133mhz Ram or I could use cheaper RAM?

 

Until now I've no problems with 24 gb of ram... and don't think that I should have ram problems with my old ws working as a render node... sometimes I use more ram with chrome than with max ...

The only concern was about a motherboard that could show some problems in the near future...

 

thank again

[Dimitris Tolios]

Well, for the mobo, if it works for you, don't fix it!

 

The 4930K is the Ivy Bridge based mid-range 6C that replaced the 3930K which was the "Sandy Bridge" 6C. The 3930K is the same generation as your current 3820. There was no s2011 4C with Ivy Bridge (they sold chips that would not pass QC for 6C as 4C Xeons instead of i7s, the die is the same on those chips).

 

The benefit is that both 4930K and 3930K are direct replacements of your 3820. Should work with your X79 board and probably cooler with no issues, so you won't need to spend extra $$, but you will get a nearly 50% bump in rendering performance for much less than setting up a new system from the ground up.

 

The 5960X does worth it over a 5820 if you are really into rendering and want a high end rig to model with at the same time, but ofc going from 6C to 8C is a smaller jump than going to 6C from 4C. One thing to keep in mind is that most buyers and those that suggest those CPUs do take into account the overclocking abilities.

 

The 5960X, although does score good in multithreaded tasks out of the box thanks to its 8C, for single threaded it is not tough to imagine it will be lacking quite a bit when its stock clock is limited to 3.5GHz boost / 3.0 GHz base vs. a "mere" s1150 4790K that boosts almost 1GHz more @ 4.4GHz boost / 4GHz base.

Given that with a $100 class cooling solution and pretty much any half-decent mobo, any s2011-3 6C and 8C can hit 4.4-4.5GHz, people do take it for granted that they won't leave this performance on the table and settle for base clocks, but I understand that this might not be your cup of tea. Just worths putting it out there: the 5960X won't blow you away being faster than your 3820 for daily modelling tasks.

 

RAM: current CPUs cannot saturate 1866 DDR3 that easily, furthermore DDR4 that has a minimum speed @ 2133.

Don't forget that current s2011-3 CPUs are still Haswell, like the 4770 & 4790K. And the latter has no issues working with dual channel DDR3-1866.

[Nikolaos M]

There was no s2011 4C with Ivy Bridge (they sold chips that would not pass QC for 6C as 4C Xeons instead of i7s, the die is the same on those chips).

 

I think the 4820K was the 4c/8t Ivy Bridge, the successor of 3820.

 

In TS's place I would choose something between these 2 setups:

 

1. If I wanted a single workstation for modeling and rendering at the same time, I would sell the cpu, mobo, RAM and ssd, and with a new total of around 2000€ I would change them for a new 5960X based system, keeping most of the old parts (if their condition is still good):

 

1 x Crucial MX200 250GB, SATA 6Gb/s (CT250MX200SSD1)

1 x Intel Core i7-5960X Extreme Edition, 8x 3.00GHz, boxed ohne Kühler (BX80648I75960X)

1 x Crucial Ballistix Sport DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-2400, CL16-16-16 (BLS4C8G4D240FSA/BLS4K8G4D240FSA)

1 x ASUS X99-A/USB 3.1 (90MB0L90-M0EAY0)

Total: ~1750€

 

You can also add a good AIO cooler, if your chassis has enough space for one, in order to oc the 5960X. With a 4.4GHz oc this processor would perform more than twice faster in renderings compared to your 3820.

 

2. If I desided to keep the old pc as the main workstation, then with 1500€ it would be easy to build a 5820K based render node. Something like this:

 

1 x Crucial MX200 250GB, SATA 6Gb/s (CT250MX200SSD1)

1 x Intel Core i7-5820K, 6x 3.30GHz, boxed ohne Kühler (BX80648I75820K)

1 x Crucial Ballistix Sport DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-2400, CL16-16-16 (BLS4C8G4D240FSA/BLS4K8G4D240FSA)

1 x ASUS X99-A/USB 3.1 (90MB0L90-M0EAY0)

1 x Noctua NH-U12S

1 x Raijintek Agos schwarz (0R200001)

1 x Super Flower Golden Green HX 550W ATX 2.3 (SF-550P14XE (HX))

 

with a simple gpu.

 

Of course, there is always the coice of buying used 6core cpus of the same socket,, as Dimitris already pointed out. A 4930K would be the cheapest way to upgrade with a 30-35% increase in rendering power compared to the 3820.

 

I hope this post helped a little.

Edited May 8, 2015 by nikolaosm

[joelmcwilliam]

Nicolaos and Dimitris gave you great advise.

 

To me it looks that you have no idea about the performance gains you will get if you go a certain path.

 

Have a look at the link below and see if it will help you to make a decision:

 

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/345

 

Now, you will want to do a overclock (4.0 to 4.4 ghz) in order to cut down rendering times. Have a look at the link below:

 

http://www.kitguru.net/desktop-pc/zardon/pcspecialist-predator-x99-system-review/10/

 

This might give you an idea of what you can except. If you need more info, just type in google what you would like to know and then go to images. Like for example, type: i7 3820 cinebench or 3930K vray and go to images and see what you can find.

 

I also put some interesting links in the topic below, see if it is of any use for you:

http://forums.cgarchitect.com/77746-need-advice-making-rendering-pc.html#post399594

 

This is what you can put in your mobo:

 

http://www.asus.com/nl/Motherboards/P9X79/HelpDesk_CPU/

 

If your mobo works fine now after all the troubleshooting you went through and you are happy with your system, apart from the renderingtimes, then the cheapest way would be, as Dimitris suggested, to go for a used 3930k and put a beefy cpu cooler on top if you don't already have one. Good air cooler would be a fat cooler from noctua like a nd-15. Thermalright and Raijintek make also good coolers if budget is thight. Just buy the biggest you see. If you are going for a watercooler you can go to the website of corsair and see what they offer.

 

You might want to post detailed specs about your system in order to get the best advise. This like power supply unit, system fans, case and stuff.

Edited May 8, 2015 by joelmcwilliam

[marksaunders]

Can I also join this discussion by saying you will be VERY underwhelmed by having a render node that only gives you an extra 8 buckets in vray. I tried it myself a number of years ago and it just doesn't make that much difference.

 

I would suggest making the upgrades to your current system as Dimitris suggested, sell the bits you don't need any more, and if you need render power use an online cloud based farm. You will save yourself a lot of money this way as it sounds like you only need to replace the cpu and possibly the mobo, both can be bought from ebay second hand from reputable sellers.

 

Unless you are willing to spend big bucks for lots of buckets it's just not worth keeping your old hardware when you can still get a good price for most of it.

[Gabriella_A]

Guys,

 

forgive me the late reply...

 

I've stopped my research for a new workstation, the "big work" that was ready to start will be delayed...

I'll probably buy something after the summer...

 

I'll take in serious considerationthe possibility of upgrading my workstation... in this way I could save a lot of money. But I would have loved the possibility of working in one machine and rendering in another at the same time....

 

thanks a lot

Gaby