WIP/project log interior

[IC]

That looks great Ernest.

 

Amazing what happens at that point in the development of a project in the right hands.

Very moody and dramatic (and it's only a wip lighting test!)

 

*I've just realised what it reminds me of-the Hotel bar in The Shining!*

[STRAT]

thats the good thing with your technique Ernest, you dont have to rely upon a super crisp, high gi setting render to get the finished product ur after.

 

nice job

[Ernest Burden III]

*I've just realised what it reminds me of-the Hotel bar in The Shining!*

 

all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

[Ernest Burden III]

Oooh, looking good! What kind of flooring is that?

 

One thing I've found very beneficial for my work is setting up the lighting before I do all the materials. Setting the lighting up with an all gray material makes it really easy to see the light distribution and lets you do fast adjustments because you don't spend time waiting for rendering reflections & fancy bitmaps, etc. The nice thing about Vray is that you can do a material override

 

The floor is a carpet in the DR, though you cannot really see the pattern, the bar floor texture is not done yet.

 

Cinema does not have a materials over-ride. You can delete all the materials, render, then undo (or use a temp copy of your file), but your feature would be better.

 

I agree, it would be a better idea to work out the lighting earlier. I may try the all-white thing with this in a day or two. (Other clients need attention, this one is still pondering the view angle).

 

Are you finding it easy to do lighting tests in C4D? What is your usual strategy/method at this point?

 

No, I'm not. In Lightscape I would usually turn off all but one lamp type and do a quick radisity run to see how each light set affected the space (adding in my head). I can do the same in Cinema, and the post with the chandelier is an example of that, but the slower speed of Cinema makes it harder. In Lightscape you actually see the lights 'fire' and then the bounces of light. It's quite fun to watch, and teached you about how the light behaves. In C its render, ponder, tweek, render, ponder. The Sniper preview window makes that faster, though. I'm also struggling to learn the begaviours of Cinema lights, which do not always behave in ways I would expect.

[Tim Nelson]

Maybe it would be helpful to try this: save another copy of your scene, and then turn all materials to gray or white. Then you can work on your lighting very quickly. Once you think you have it close enough, just export the lights and import them back into your scene that has all your real materials.

 

Or it could be more trouble than it's worth.

[Ernest Burden III]

Maybe it would be helpful to try this: save another copy of your scene, and then turn all materials to gray or white.

 

That's what I was thinking, also.

 

There is a plugin I bought (as part of a bundle) that seems to turn off all materials, then turn them on when you re-run it. That may be the same as what you are able to do in vRay. I will test it on my file (a copy thereof).

[Frosty]

Cinema does not have a materials over-ride. You can delete all the materials, render, then undo (or use a temp copy of your file), but your feature would be better.

Cinema can do something very similar. You have the ability to simply render without any maps. Other features such as shader colour will still be appearent - image maps will not be used.

Render Settings>>Options>>Uncheck Textures

 

No, I'm not. In Lightscape I would usually turn off all but one lamp type and do a quick radisity run to see how each light set affected the space (adding in my head). I can do the same in Cinema, and the post with the chandelier is an example of that, but the slower speed of Cinema makes it harder.

Don't forget Cinema can also render out to layered PSD with each light or light set seperated. This would allow you to adjust each light independently in post.

[Tim Nelson]

Don't forget Cinema can also render out to layered PSD with each light or light set seperated. This would allow you to adjust each light independently in post.

 

Wow, now THAT sounds cool!

[Ernest Burden III]

Don't forget Cinema can also render out to layered PSD with each light or light set seperated. This would allow you to adjust each light independently in post.

 

I forgot that it could seperate the lights or objects. I was thinking of using the PSD output. My problem is that if I render it to the 9tile camera, then there are 9 multi-layer files to re-assemble.

 

Tim--it also will seperate the radiosity to a layer, plus specular, reflections, just about anything.

[Tim Nelson]

Tim--it also will seperate the radiosity to a layer, plus specular, reflections, just about anything.

 

Yea I guess Vray does that too - g buffer output or something like that. My problem is that I don't really know how to re-assemble those in Photoshop and have it look right.

 

I've been using PSD manager, but it has it's limitations when working with Vray. Right now all it can do is seperated layer/object output, which is great to have, but would be even better if I could get all the elements on seperate layers too.

[Frosty]

My problem is that if I render it to the 9tile camera, then there are 9 multi-layer files to re-assemble.

Yup, that could pose a seriously tough prob. I think Maxon should have included a script that reassembled the tiles into one larger file.

[4DM]

Ernest, may I ask why you are rendering to a 9-tile camera?

 

D.

[Ernest Burden III]

Yea I guess Vray does that too - g buffer output or something like that. My problem is that I don't really know how to re-assemble those in Photoshop and have it look right.

 

Perhaps you would'nt have to. The Cinema multi-pass thing outputs a file that when views as-is looks just like a regular render. But the layers for shadows, radiosity, specular, whatever, are set to the proper layermode to work together.

[Ernest Burden III]

Ernest, may I ask why you are rendering to a 9-tile camera?

 

So far I'm not, but the idea would be to render three times faster. I have three machines, so thats 3 tiles each with NetRender.

[Tim Nelson]

Perhaps you would'nt have to. The Cinema multi-pass thing outputs a file that when views as-is looks just like a regular render. But the layers for shadows, radiosity, specular, whatever, are set to the proper layermode to work together.

Yeah I think that's the way Vray works too. But what format do you save as so you can retain those layers?

[Ernest Burden III]

Yeah I think that's the way Vray works too. But what format do you save as so you can retain those layers?

 

.psd

 

A Photoshop layered file

[Tim Nelson]

Man, I thought I was crazy at first if it had been that simple. I checked the vray frame buffer and tried to save as .psd but it does not let you do it like that. That's why I was wondering if there was another format that was simliar to .psd & still kept layers.

[Ernest Burden III]

I checked the vray frame buffer and tried to save as .psd but it does not let you do it like that. That's why I was wondering if there was another format that was simliar to .psd & still kept layers.

 

TIFF can have layers, with Photoshop 7 and up. But the writing app would have to have the option for saving the component layers.

[Tim Nelson]

Shucks. I can save as tiff but I don't think with layers. The quest continues...

[4DM]

So far I'm not, but the idea would be to render three times faster. ....

 

Ernest, mate..I have to tell you this, with all due respect, and all the goodwill in the world, (and it may not be your fault because every commission comes with it's issues, and clearly you had to take off some time on this one...) but IMO, this thread is turning into a tutorial into how not to run a job !

 

I feel that the time you are spending on this commission is far in excess of what is economically feasible. Fine if you are a student, if it's a hobby, or you have some form of private income (!), but otherwise it's just painful to watch it dragging on.

 

The idea of using 3 machines to save time on rendering (perhaps a couple of hours?) when you are spending weeks on one visual is really missing the point, I think, and for me it's the final straw, so I am going to publish my thoughts and be damned....

 

I know you are doing a really admirable thing, trying to inspire others by posting this thread, but you have to accept that there will be detractors to your work philosophy, and although I am a newbie here, and you are an old hand, I have to confess my exasperation has just got the better of me!

 

I am also just one guy working from home, with only one computer (G5 Mac), and also with a rather tortuous workflow I have brought upon myself.. ( VW>C4D -->P'shop), but I have made up a sheet of what I have produced since 16 Jan 2005 (ie: when your project also started.) And to be quite honest, I have always thought I was terribly slow compared to 1 or 2 pals of mine. (You know who you are, ?????????? ; )

 

Ernest, I am really not trying to put you down, it's just that if you are doing this for a living, the clock is ticking, and spending too long on one job means you are unavailable for the next one..which could lead onto the next, and the next.. etc etc.. This is a lesson all freelances must learn early on, for simple economic survival.

 

And, again only my opinion, but the result so far in no way justifies the time you have spent. I'm sorry, it's just how I see it, and I think you deserve honesty, not flattery, for all your efforts.

 

Anyway, like many others, I look forward to seeing the next stage..you're almost there now...just get that lighting cracked. It's got to look like people are going to have a good time in there...we're selling dreams don't forget!

 

Here is my last month's workload, to prove I am not just trolling...

 

Good luck,

 

Danny.

 

Edit: Typo in image - that last office render was completed 21 Feb. not 2 Feb as shown.

[Ernest Burden III]

IMO, this thread is turning into a tutorial into how not to run a job !...it's just painful to watch it dragging on.

 

Some tough love from Danny.

 

The idea of using 3 machines to save time on rendering (perhaps a couple of hours?) when you are spending weeks on one visual is really missing the point, I think

 

I can see what you mean. Its funny, really.

 

spending too long on one job means you are unavailable for the next one..which could lead onto the next, and the next.. etc etc.. This is a lesson all freelances must learn early on, for simple economic survival.

 

So true. This one has gotten away from me. But again, part of the issue is that I'm trying to switch my rendering software, which means a lot of on-the-job learning of, in my case, C4D. But, yeah, the timing has begun to cause a pinch between this job and the next two. I did a few things in the middle of this one, but putting in too much effort is just as bad as too little.

 

And, again only my opinion, but the result so far in no way justifies the time you have spent...

 

It will.

 

Please don't be appologetic for your opinions, I put this on here as an experiment and invited comments and suggestions. You made some great points, and delivered them respectfully. Thank you for posting them.

 

You see, in the end I try something new on just about every project. It always slows me down, but I want to learn and try. I didn't switch to 100% digital work because it was the forced upon me, I needed to change how I work for my own sanity. I needed to make it new, interesting and a challenge. So here I am, challenging.

 

Being efficient is at least as hard as being good.

[alexg]

Ernest

 

I have to agree with 4DM here about the time. Very impressive results, but you must have a very nice client to cope with the timing. Never had them here.

 

With the time spent, wouldn't you want to employ a modeller / part timer to do all those things you don't really like ? modelling furnitures and such?

You might be able to finish less time with additional hand, and have extra time to tweak things that you really enjoy.

 

 

 

4DM

 

Damn, you're fast.... 4 projects in 2 weeks time.

The fastest I can nail a project is 5 days from scratch including revisions from architect. We used to be able to deliver in 3 days but the clients nowadays are getting more demanding. Can't impress them in one shot like old days.

[4DM]

Please don't be appologetic for your opinions, I put this on here as an experiment and invited comments and suggestions. You made some great points, and delivered them respectfully. Thank you for posting them.

 

 

Taken on the chin like an Englishman

 

I am very glad I didn't offend, because I didn't intend to.

 

One thing though, I would not worry so much about your rendering software learning curve..you're going to "Ernest it up" in Photoshop anyway, with your distinctive noise style, etc, so I'm sure you could rescue any disparities there.

 

I migrated to C4D from (blush!) Artlantis, a couple of years ago, so I understand the issues. Of course, in my case it was a definite step upwards !

 

Now, I'm off to bed, and you have a restaurant to finish.....

 

Cheers,

 

D.

[4DM]

4DM

 

Damn, you're fast.... 4 projects in 2 weeks time.

 

Well, Alex, not exactly. The 2 apartment visuals are not finished yet - I still have to build a fairly complex courtyard with gaps through to underground parking, as well as street stuff on the ground level view. Plus they are about to change all the window positions (and some finishes) on the building as a result of planning decisions. AAAaargh!!

 

So 3 finished interiors and 2 three quarter-finished, but fairly complex exteriors in 5 weeks. I guess it will take nearly 1 week more to complete the 2 apartment visuals once I have the new info.

 

Seriously, I have a very talented pal who could probably do it all in about 1 week though. Which is why I have always felt quite slow in comparison.

 

Anyway, I don't want to hijack any more of Ernest's thread, so I'll go now.

 

Cheers,

 

D.

[Ernest Burden III]

With the time spent, wouldn't you want to employ a modeller / part timer to do all those things you don't really like ? modelling furnitures and such?

 

Yes. Usually that is what I do. But I wanted to do those bits myself for the learning of C4D modeling. I did learn. I also learned I would have been better employing someone else, as you suggest.