AdamT Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 NL missed yet another deadline. Last published deadline for Maxwell 1.0 was 12/22/05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I am shocked!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivoli Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 actually they changed that one, the site now says 1.0 out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 actually they changed that one, the site now says 1.0 out soon. Doesn't change the fact that they announced it though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 What is there to say, really. Whom actually expected anything but a missed date. More interesting, perhaps is the question of whether or not they will get an update released before Christmas and if so, if it will be of any real value. As mad at NextLimit as I am, even they deserve a break for the holidays. It would be nice to get an update first, but if we don't we can be sure it will much later, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivoli Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Doesn't change the fact that they announced it though.... sure they did, but i really doubt anyone was really expecting anything to come out today, let alone maxwell 1.0... to be fair, they ammitted there are problems with the RC and that announcement made clear the 22nd date would have been slipped, eventually they replaced it with "soon". which is good by the way, as for removing that silly "last chance to preorder" from their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSpaulding Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I propose 2 Maxwell boards... One for discussion. And one for this constant, boring, rehashed complaining being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I propose 2 Maxwell boards... One for discussion. And one for this constant, boring, rehashed complaining being done. People are complaining because they have been mislead over and over again for the better part of a year. This latest missed date although not shocking or unexpected is just another indication how little NL cares about it's customers or even it's reputation in the CG world. It's extremely frustrating to have been told over and over that the end is in sight, only to have it pushed away again and again with no explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 sure they did, but i really doubt anyone was really expecting anything to come out today Yes, but this misses the point. Its perfectly obviously that we're months away from anything usable. Having seen the rc's first hand this is more than crystal clear. The point *is*, rather, that after more than a year of this silly hide and seek game, everyone is *very* tired of being mislead, and at this point its getting to be seriously damaging for Next Limit. Their credibility as concerns communication is zero, at this point. Now december has changed to soon (same silly scenario during november) and so on and so forth. In Victor's communication, we read something like not so soon but not so long. Same story. Very boring, very irritating. Maybe 6 months ago it was'nt such a bore. If they keep doing business this way, and then justify themselves by saying "well you shouldn't have expected it, anyway," (which they havent done, to be fair), they're just going to do themselves more damage. It just isn't serious. Banana Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 I propose 2 Maxwell boards... One for discussion. And one for this constant, boring, rehashed complaining being done. Unfortunately the only thing about Maxwell that's worth discussing at the moment is the status of its development. The beta's functioning and limitations have been pretty thoroughly catalogued over the last six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSpaulding Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 People are complaining because they have been mislead over and over again for the better part of a year. This latest missed date although not shocking or unexpected is just another indication how little NL cares about it's customers or even it's reputation in the CG world. It's extremely frustrating to have been told over and over that the end is in sight, only to have it pushed away again and again with no explanation. I understand why. However, cant it be confined to a thread? Must there be new complaint posts each day? On issues already discussed? Multiple times even? No, there doesn't. I'm still interested in the info and FUTURE progress and cant get it because every thread becomes a piss-and-moan fest about the same exact issue. Blah blah blah unstable. Blah blah blah NL doesn't care. Blah blah blah refund. Blah blah blah lawsuit. You cant get good info now. It's be polluted by complaints. Trust me, NL knows your pissed. You not divulging new information to anyone and frankly, are slowing the process to get a stable version I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 The point is, there is no info.--good, bad, or indifferent, which is at the root of all the complaints. Even if NL announced something, they've proven time and again that they can't be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 This might be a little bit premature but when is version 2 coming out?? Next Year, never, Next decade, not yet, Next Millenium ?? what is The Limit of Patience ?? Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I understand why. However, cant it be confined to a thread? Must there be new complaint posts each day? On issues already discussed? Multiple times even? I understand the frustration, Ryan. But in fairness this IS a thread about a complaint: Anyone notice? NL missed yet another deadline. Nothing else. Anyway, that's where we are, complaining. We had hoped to have an update to talk about today, but don't. It may be the same chorus, but it's after a new verse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoA4D Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 My mind is not satisfied with the *near* future issue of the R/VI arrival. No. There is this nagging concern that NL's performance to date will not necessarily improve in the future, after the R/V1 arrives. It's a glass half empty (same old NL)/half full (the new NL) paradox. There is enough experience with NL to believe that that bridge, "Benefit of the Doubt.", is now a pile of ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivoli Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 The point *is*, rather, that after more than a year of this silly hide and seek game, everyone is *very* tired of being mislead, and at this point its getting to be seriously damaging for Next Limit. Their credibility as concerns communication is zero, at this point. that's fair enough, and believe me the point couldn't be clearer. fact is i much prefer to have them saying "out soon" rather than setting another ridiculous release date and then slip it. tell us you're working on it, have it done, then announce it and then release it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Well Ryan, that's true;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondertonio Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I understand why. However, cant it be confined to a thread? Must there be new complaint posts each day? On issues already discussed? Multiple times even? No, there doesn't. I'm still interested in the info and FUTURE progress and cant get it because every thread becomes a piss-and-moan fest about the same exact issue. Blah blah blah unstable. Blah blah blah NL doesn't care. Blah blah blah refund. Blah blah blah lawsuit. You cant get good info now. It's be polluted by complaints. Trust me, NL knows your pissed. You not divulging new information to anyone and frankly, are slowing the process to get a stable version I'm sure. That's the problem : Maxwell has become famous for its bad costumer care as much as for the quality of the images it produces. It's logical the conversation systematically turns around one or the other. NL never admitted or honestly explained some of their mistakes even when they were obvious to all. They prefered to pretend everything was normal and kept low profile. The permanent ranting is one of the consequences of such a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 The thing that shook me up so bad about the RC's was not when a version of Maxwell with the beta problems fixed and faster render times would be released. It was a question of whether or not it was even possible afterall. Lots of people who know a lot more about computer science than I do predicted that by it's very definition, there was little room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted December 23, 2005 Author Share Posted December 23, 2005 That's my main concern too; not when, but if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave davidson Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 That's my main concern too; not when, but if. amen and that worries me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I understand why. However, cant it be confined to a thread? Must there be new complaint posts each day? On issues already discussed? Multiple times even? No, there doesn't. I'm still interested in the info and FUTURE progress and cant get it because every thread becomes a piss-and-moan fest about the same exact issue. Blah blah blah unstable. Blah blah blah NL doesn't care. Blah blah blah refund. Blah blah blah lawsuit. You cant get good info now. It's be polluted by complaints. Trust me, NL knows your pissed. You not divulging new information to anyone and frankly, are slowing the process to get a stable version I'm sure. MODERATOR MODE=OFF Why waste your time replying to a thread you think shouldn't even be here? My advice is to skip the ones you don't like and let people be. MODERATOR MODE=ON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 It was a question of whether or not it was even possible afterall. Lots of people who know a lot more about computer science than I do predicted that by it's very definition, there was little room for improvement. This scares me to death Fran, I'm very worried that they have hit a wall that they just can't get around. From Victors last email I thought it was clear that they had several different development options left to try. I'm afraid that the RC that we all hated was the most advanced and developed and as a result the others may not be advanced enough to yet tell if they will solve the problem or not. I wonder where Buffos is, he knows a lot about this stuff and I'm sure he has an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Keep in mind that MLT/path tracing rendering has been around for many, many years. Its not a new discovery, and there are quite a few render engines which implement MLT engines. NL was the first developer that hyped it, and for that, they deserve credit, and the beta engine is indeed very impressive. Path tracing engines have been around for a long time, and have also not been considered (at this point) professionally viable because of the slowness, noisiness, and the so far 'unresolvable problems.' So many developers have known about it for some time, but never considered it ripe for being exploited. I think on the Chaos forum recently Vlado mentioned that MLT/bi-directional path tracing algorithms could (and will) be implemented into V-Ray in about a weeks time of programming (a bit of an exageration, i think) - but, the point is, do we still really know if its worth it? Its still a big risk, and NL's probably got a huge battle on their hands trying to get their engine to work. For example, we havent seen any remote proof that they've even tried at this point to get sunlight working with glass dialectrics (not that they exist anymore). Also worthy of note is a discussion (i think here, maybe?) with the developer of the Hungry Cat renderer, another path tracer engine (which hopefully will go public/commercial one day), in which he states that from his programmer's point of view, Next Limit has a very scholastic (something of that nature) approach to programming the core engine, in others words, from his experience he wasn't too impressed by NL's development approach, although he did acknowledge that the beta was producing some very lovely renders. Food for thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I've never heard of Hungry Cat, are they a direct competitor of Next Limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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