bricklyne Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Don't get me wrong, i'm not blind to what happend in the past with RC's and everything else but i can say that i do talk alot with several people from the team, several times a week and sometimes also daily via email and i never had a problem with the communication with NL. I know stuff i cannot say as i sworn to keep silent but RC5 will be good and worth waiting for, that's as much as i can say even tho noone here will believe me on that. And i know that Mike V agrees with me on that too even tho he's bound by his NDA to not say anything revealing. I understand that frustration and anger took a big deep bite outta most of you and that it's hard to let go of the past problems the delays and lack of communication caused us all. NL knows about them very well, and why they don't do more than they do about it i can only speculate has something to do with them working so hard and having so few people and time to sort out the problems on the forum with the communication with us users. That's my guess based on my long conversations with NL. Don't quote me on this please. And to those who prefer to call me names like "fanboy" or whatever i don't care, go ahead if it makes you happier. But i know some about developement and people and i judge this situation based on what knowledge i have and not on what other people think about it and me. / Max Maximus, you see, therein lies the problem. You know a lot of stuff about the development that can allow you to maintain such a positive outlook on the future of the program - stuff that the rest of the Maxwell community ( the non-testing clientbase anyway) don't know; and largely as a result of NL's refusal to communicate in a meaningful way. So you can't seriously expect other people to remain as positive and as supportive as you always are, can you? The only reason people get riled up is because they feel they are being deliberately ignored and taken for granted, when truth is, (if memory serves correctly) one of NL's selling points was that people who bought the pre-release versions would get to actively participate ( presumably to the degree that you and the 'A-team' are) in the development of the program right throug to the release of version 1.0. don't forget that things in this whole episode began to go really south, when Victor posted an announcement late last Summer, sometime after the Beta was released, stating that there would be no more releases and that the Beta-testing would be limited to a select few. So what happened to the rest of us who were also supposed to be involved? And why then, would everyone else not feel betrayed or cheated by this turn of events? As for the fanboy issue, I'm sure you were referring to my use of the term, and as much as I would like to convince you that I was not using with negative connotations, the fact that people do use it as such, is merely a reflection of the above fact; the perception that NL's refusal to communicate and seeming inabillity to accomplish the task does not warrant the kind of apparent "blind" and blanket support that the so-called 'fanboys' seem to give it; particularly the johnny-come-latelies who've not been so blessed as to have suffered through this entire episode for as long as other people have. Obviously, as you have now revealed you know more about it's development than you are allowed to tell and as such you can claim that your optimisim is not unfounded. The rest of us, through no fault of our own, aren't so lucky, so unless you or NL are willing to change that fact, why not allow people the space to express their well-justified, for all intents and pruposes, frustration and dissatisfaction with the whole situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Let's think about this Maximus. They've got all sorts of upbeat things they're only willing to tell you, but not their whole userbase, right? Does that make any sort of sense? I don't know what the reality of the situation is, but if I were you I'd consider using caution when considering what you've been told. ThomasAn left his duties because he basically lost faith in NL, and NL won't tell the rest of us anything about, well, anything. Perhaps (and I mean 'maybe') they're feeding you this feel-good info so as to keep one of their good little soldiers spreading sunshine on their forum? Why that is preferable to telling us all the 'good news' is beyond me (because it isn't such good news, because they're plain crazy?), but who can decipher why these guys do what they do. It's interesting... once upon a time I was looked upon favorably by NL, and I had several instances where company members communicated with me about various different things I swore not to reveal (and haven't). These bits of info, though, are what first kindled my frustration with them... I realized that appearances and reality could be very different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Maxer "Have they removed cooperative rendering as a feature?" have They removed cooperation as a Feature?? ** OT, but, maybe not so OT what was The name of That movie? That had The brief fight scene where one cowboy said To The other, "on The count of Three lets fight, one, Two.." and Then The 1st cowboy kicked The other cowboy in the b@ll$ at which point The offending (kicking) cowboy said, "what we have here is a failure To communicate" not sure why This keeps coming To mind ?? ** Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus3D Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hi again bricklayne Yes i know some stuff, not as much as the members of the A-Team does but i do know some things. Frustration and anger, yes that i can totally understand and i agree it's bad and sad the way things have turned out. It could been so much better with very little effort from them. It's also understandable that people desperately want what they paid for and they want it yesterday. There's just too much now.. ,i did my best for months trying to talk them into improving things lacking and getting them to communicate more with us. Much more than so i cannot possibly do but just hope they listen and do what i suggest them to do. Those feelings and emotions stirred up from all the events that happend are human and they should occur in situations like this, it's natural and alright in my eyes. But some people do go over the top and cross the line, there's a limit to everything and some selfmoderation should kick in practice in some people. In other words, think before you talk I can only guess why they have a selected few number of testers, it's probably because they have more control and they avoid leaks with a trusted selected few testers such as those in the A-Team. The more people you involve the bigger the chance is of having leaks and other problems. And trust me, i got called just about every name in the book for being supportive for something that other people think is a complete failure. I could care less about what those people think, i know what i know and that's more than enough for me to stay positive about Maxwell even tho things look darker than dark. / Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivoli Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 It's interesting... once upon a time I was looked upon favorably by NL wow, i can't quite believe it. are you making this up andrew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I can only guess why they have a selected few number of testers, it's probably because they have more control and they avoid leaks with a trusted selected few testers such as those in the A-Team. The more people you involve the bigger the chance is of having leaks and other problems. Actually, I think this part makes sense. If you're going to be updating at the rate they have for the A-Team releases, you just can't provide any reasonable level of support for more than a few people. This has been tried before and usually causes more problems than it solves. Imagine hundreds of users downloading RC4.9.1.14 and then hitting the forums and emailing Tom and Victor with "OMG THE SUN DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE! The sun worked in 4.9.1.13! Why do you hate us???? Release 4.9.1.15 right now!" Of course, the ones they do release to the general really ought to sun working... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 There's just too much now.. ,i did my best for months trying to talk them into improving things lacking and getting them to communicate more with us. Much more than so i cannot possibly do but just hope they listen and do what i suggest them to do. This reflects a disturbing trend to me. As far as I know, you Mike Verta, and Thomas An. have all tried in good faith to get Next Limit to be more forthcoming with its customers. You all are (or have been) much closer to the NL team than most of us, and they still haven't changed their behavior at all. I appreciate your efforts, but NL's silence only serves to reinforce our pessimism. If they won't take constructive advice from you guys, I doubt they'll listen to anyone else. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I wonder what the root of this arragance from NL is, are they afraid if they give us some information someone from Cebas or the Chaos Group will steel their ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 wow, i can't quite believe it. are you making this up andrew? Not at all. I was one of a small number of people who worked hard on debugging the FormZ plugin... I was in near constant contact w/Juan for about a month, and received several emails from them thanking me for my finds. There's more, actually, but you get the picture. I've never responded to those who have assumed that I've never been constructive on the Maxwell forum, but it does bother me that they don't see the whole picture. I didn't just drop onto the scene ready to be disgruntled for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Mike...I appreciate your efforts, but NL's silence only serves to reinforce our pessimism. If they won't take constructive advice from you guys, I doubt they'll listen to anyone else. Jack I suppose this will post will get lost in the MVmegathread on MWRforum, so since its related to what we're discussing here: mverta wrote: I'm not disagreeing. I'm just working the problem, brother. Two questions, then: Does NL put out a coherent, no-misunderstandings statement in Spanish? They shouldn't have a language barrier with that. I couldn't read it, but many people can who also speak English and we could have the benefit of thier translational insight. And what has been the response from NextLimit when you have gone to them pleading for the communications we have been hammering you for? You say 'these people are really angry at the silence most of all, we would have a much smoother process, even fewer customers looking for refunds from their c.c. banks if only you would talk to them' and they say....what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivoli Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I didn't just drop onto the scene ready to be disgruntled for no reason. yes, i know. i kinda remember those days before things started to get out of nl's hand, i've been hoping they'd be back on track sooner or later, but at this point i can't say i still really care about maxwell's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoA4D Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Interesting revelation, Maximus, but, I agree there is reason to question why NL is communicating with you and not us. If you think about it, NL's official communications to date have been very carefully orchestrated to avoid revealling progress details, steer thinking and expectations and influence sales. Obversely, they made an effort to control negative publicity, which failed and brought more negative publicity and this forum. Do you know they have not made you a mouthpiece? This explains, in part, your positive demeanor about NL. I know, without NL, you would still be a positive person. I wonder how many others over there are enjoying inside info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I think NL never liked me. I'm over it. Yeah. I'm not gonna waste the pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivox3 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Does anyone feel like NL liked 'em? [rhetorical] I think I still like Maya though ...... he he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Oh yes, NL used to like me a lot. They communicated with me privately and often, and I learned the most shocking things about the whole development process, not to mention the predeliction of one who shall remain nameless (let's just call him "Mr. V") for putting not so small objects where Nature did not intend for them to go. Sadly I'm sworn to secrecy. Sigh.... Seriously, though, NL has been conducting business this way from the beginning--telling select people things privately that they would not say in public. Very often these confidences have turned out to be lies, or simply innacurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffos Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 One thing is for sure. They never liked me :D:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeFerret Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 One thing is for sure. They never liked me :D:D But Buffos, you're a legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivox3 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Buffos, .......you might of been a rock in their shoe and what you said might be ture .......,but what also is true i that ............long long long after this is a distant memory, ...I can guarantee that, if they remember one thing--- .......it's the name __________Buffos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlfucious Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 origonally posted by Maximus 3D If you assume RC5 will be a failure then you're wrong, maybe you set out to be dissapointed even if it renders the whole world down to every little neutron in realtime on a pocketcalculator. I know there's alot of people who think like that. Be realistic and not stupid please. I wont be dissapointed if it acually renders. I dont care too much about the speed. I didnt expect it to compare with menta ray for speed. And I dont mind too much if I have to let it bake for 18 hours to get a render. Everyone knows Maxwell is slow. I know and that wasnt what I was getting at. But what I do expect is that It acually works. You think im nitpicking because Physical sky does absolutly nothing in Maya. Thats crazy. Thats the reason why I bought Maxwell in the first place. And now it doesnt work At all. How whould you feel if the Physical sky didnt work in Max. You would be verry mad im shure. Rendering every little Neutron vs Rendering Physical Sky and sun is a HUGE diffrence. I dont even know where you get that comparison from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Next Limit promised a lot and sold us on the idea that they were on the verge of delivering. There is no excuse for their deception and let's not make any mistake they did deceive all of us. Now we've found out that 1.0 won't have all of the promised features and it may be another year before we even get our hands on a less than perfect product. In my view everyone who is mad has every right to be, and what ever they want to say about NL and Maxwell is completely justified. NL has made monumental mistakes which have left them with a tarnished image and a user base that is on the verge of mutiny and they deserve everything they are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Another point on success is that because of the puerile behaviour of NextLimit the alledged product must be viewed from a professional standpoint as highly flawed regardless of what it can or cannot do. The very fact that the company cannot be trusted means you make another gamble basing your professional work on a product that may never be fully fixed or updated, bug fixes may never happen, etc. Lightscape was a product that had been actively developed and supported by companies that were 'there' when we needed them. But when Autodesk decided to drop the product and then drop support, it became clear that my days of being a "lightscape-based' rendering company were numbered. Yes, it still works. I've used it up to early 2005. But I cannot anymore because I'm risking too much and it will never get any better. The transition has been hard, and I blame Autodesk. I hope to never buy another product they make. Since they bought Maya I may have to break that, but we'll see if they stick with that product, either. So its not enough if MWR1.0 works. NextLimit has to be a trustworthy business partner, which they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 okay vic EXPECTS to release rc5 next tuesday...that is if he'll be able to get that rubber duckie out of..err..his ear by then and everybody bows and cheers cuz he dropped a few sentences after all this silence/mess:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 So, in other words, the usual. Well let's just hope he get the duck out of his, err, ear by tuesday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeFerret Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 What a total load of C@! All the posts saying thanks Victor makes my stomach hurt. Anyone else notice that the next release, which was so close 2 weeks ago is now without even more options. LOL Deja Victor "kick his a#$ Sea Bass" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffos Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I guess you did not notice what i have been shouting for some time now. What they actually say is that the SUN-GLASS problem can not AND WILL NOT be solve with RS1. Only RS2 can render it, and they dont say it will be avaliable in V1!!!!! They say eventually. You know what does that mean. Just think what "soon" means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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