Ernest Burden III Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I agree. As I said in my first post that is the big mistake they have made: involve customers in a research project. Even that does not cover the situation. Because if the pitch was for the people in the industry to become investors in the product, or the company producing the product, then taking money for research would be fine. Of course their creditcard processor wouldn't have allowed it, but they could get checks by mail or wire transfers. But the return for investors would be either cash or some part ownership in the product, which come back to cash. Getting to use Maxwell would be a by-product, not the endgame. What seperates the current situation from that one is communication and control. Investors usually have an expectation to some of both, but we have neither. Just about everyone has said it--its the lack of communication that is the real problem here. And since that is the culture of NextLimit, being secretive yet smug (just read their cgarcgitect interview from over a year ago) I'm not confident we can turn that around. Without it, the project is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmwhitt Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I just spoke to Bank of America regarding my purchase of MWR in February 2005 using my Visa Checkcard. I was told that it is not possible to file a claim for a transaction past 60 days. According to Bank of America, this is a Visa policy. Has anyone organized any type of group action against Next Limit at this time? If so, I would be extremely interested in signing up. I have decided to go ahead and purchase FinalRender for Cinema and perhaps wait for a VRay standalone later this year. I sure could use the $412.89 that I wasted on Maxwell Render to apply towards these purchases...... Anyone interested in forming a public interest group? Please advise...... Thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I just spoke to Bank of America regarding my purchase of MWR in February 2005 using my Visa Checkcard. I was told that it is not possible to file a claim for a transaction past 60 days. According to Bank of America, this is a Visa policy. Did you speak with a supervisor? Did you make the arguement that the merchant has many times promised a delivery, causing you to wait in good faith, and then failed to deliver? The more fruitful information would be whom is NextLimit's creditcard processor. They may not know, and may not 'smile upon' NL selling orders to a product they cannot deliver in a reasonable time. I think it likely that the company does not know this. However, making sure they know that does not necessarily get you your money back, but raises the likelihood that NL will be in a big puddle of hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmwhitt Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Ernest: Yes & Yes! I spoke with the supervisor and his supervisor! Believe me, I can be quite relentless and the only advice that I got was to contact the Better Business Bureau which won't do any good whatsoever as NextLimit is in Spain. Has anyone else tried for a chargeback after 60 days? I would be interested in your progress....... Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 what kills me is NL is just laughing and making fun 'bout the ones who complain. legal steps from here in switzerland are costly and timeconsuming so i'm now checking out another route with ombudsmen (offices in spain/madrid)..haven't found the right one yet me thinks..have to check with a friend who speaks spanish..but they follow complains at low/no cost (at least ombudsmen in switzerland do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Has anyone else tried for a chargeback after 60 days? I would be interested in your progress....... Kevin Fran mentioned being asked to fill out some forms, so maybe her. I made my charges on a regular creditcard but quite a long time ago, so I will call the bank and simply ask advice about options, should I want to 'go there'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmwhitt Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I believe Fran was trying to have her 2nd license refunded which was probably purchased at a later date. Even though you will see no complaints from me on any of the forums, I am certainly ready to "go there"...... but it doesn't appear there is anywhere "to go"! Thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I made my second purchase on Oct. 15th. My account manager told me that it is likely that I have a case for a refund even though it is past 60 days. I figure it is worth a shot. I am fully convinced that the Release Candidates were stalling tactics. If not for the promises of "some days", I would have been able to get out within the 60-day limit. The thing is, that the newsletter I received in October said "Last chance" and "History in the making" and "V1.0 to be released later this month". So I bought a second license. I've never even used the download link. Why is it that 90 days and still no product is a lesser argument than 60? Oh, and don't forget that they have offices in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 This might sound a bit crazy, but I just noticed something while on the NL boards. Look at the third post under: http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8079 The lighting is caustics coming in from the outside. Look at the beta one - the caustics are slow, but they are resolving - both on the wall and in the reflection (wasn't that supposed to be impossible?) In the large image they are perfect. Isn't this a situation that should cause the problem Vlado was on about? My equipment is tied up today but maybe somebody has time to set up something similar and do their own test in beta? My suspicion here is so bad I don't want to say it out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermi Bertran Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Oh well, what a mess with this Maxwellrender!, whiskey, Ombudsman would be "Defensor del Pueblo" yet that it is not an institution for private bussines issues (at lest in spain) , but to defend citizens in front of Public Administration abuse, Consumer defense organizations should be the way to go, and keep in mind Spain belong to the European Community, so that's a place to search for sonsumer defense too. Meanwhile, just in case someone wnat to explore the spanish route, a couple of links: spanish national consume institute: http://www.consumo-inc.es/enlaces/interior/espana/espana.htm Consumer assotiations link: http://www.consumo-inc.es/enlaces/interior/espana/espana.htm Madrid "Oficina Municipal del Consumidor": city of Madrid Townhall consumer office address and phone numbers: MADRID GRAN VIA, 24 28013 MADRID Telf.: 010 ; 91/588 83 97 ; 588 83 93 ; 588 27 89 Fax: 91/588 83 07 It would be nice maxwellrender to be up and about and working, but is most unfair to abuse clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 My suspicion here is so bad I don't want to say it out loud. And what suspicion might that be? Photoshop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 And what suspicion might that be? Photoshop? I really don't want to say anything until I can find a way to confirm or deny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I take it back. Freed up a machine to run a quick test like the one in the announcement forum, and I was able to replicate the same noisy caustic pattern in beta. That's enough Maxwell for me today. Back to real work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I made my second purchase on Oct. 15th. My account manager told me that it is likely that I have a case for a refund even though it is past 60 days. I figure it is worth a shot. I spoke with my bank this morning about my charges with NextLimit. My first charge was Jan. 2005, so not much I can do about that. There is a 60 day, or sometimes 90 day (I'm not clear on which one applies when) time limit to request a chargeback. My second charge was May or June, so was within the original two month or so time-frame for the promised release date. No good there, either...right? I mentioned that the date had been re-scheduled several times, the most recent one being December, and then they found a way to find my purchase within the limits. I did not apply for the chargeback, just wanted to know where I stand with it. However, what I did do was file a 'compliance' complaint against NextLimit. As I've said, its against normal creditcard processing rules to pre-sell something you don't have, especially something you may never be able to produce. So that will be looked into, though its not an instant process. I accept that I took a risk and if I lose my $900 then its tuition in the school of life. But what is more disturbing is that NextLimit has continued to sell licences even as the entire project was falling to pieces. If this bothers you, call your card issuer and talk about an investigation of NextLimit's 'compliance' to the banking rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 What shocks me most Ernest is the fact that after all of this people are still purchasing licenses of Maxwell. I should start up a web site selling rocks and just put on it "Last Chance to get 60% off these rocks" and I'd be a millionaire over night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_c Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 What shocks me most Ernest is the fact that after all of this people are still purchasing licenses of Maxwell. I should start up a web site selling rocks and just put on it "Last Chance to get 60% off these rocks" and I'd be a millionaire over night! Sorry, but this type of comment (and some yours titlethread here) it seems to me, not exactly coming from somebody that we suppose should be a forum moderator... maybe I misunderstand something because of my bad english, but... btw, I'm not a NLfanboy. sorry for my english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Mc.....what exactly have I said that you think is inappropriate for a moderator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_c Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Mc.....what exactly have I said that you think is inappropriate for a moderator? What I quoted. Was only sarcasm, I know. but in italian language "moderatore" is somebody who's putting water and not oil on the fire, trying to calm down the "hot" people and tryng to keep a positive talking, of course without beeing "fanboy". Well, we all know that the communication isn't the strong point of NL marketing; and because of this, somebody can have "some" reaction over the point. Unfortunately, in the last months, we had tons of that type of reaction, especially in the MaxwellRender forum. Was really a good fresh air to see here a new forum about M~R. I hope fresh air doesn't become, sooner, quite heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeFerret Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 So you want only positive posts, and the mods to act like Care Bears? I would agree if there wasn't a good reason for the anger. My suggestion would be to not read anything that seems negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Unfortunately, if you don't want negative, then you'll have to find another product that isn't plagued with as many problems as this one. Reality is, the situation with Maxwell sucks- who would the moderators be to tell us otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Marco- I think there's a difference between sarcasm and flaming, and Devin was using sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_c Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 So you want only positive posts, and the mods to act like Care Bears? I would agree if there wasn't a good reason for the anger. My suggestion would be to not read anything that seems negative. Not exactly. I didn't wrote "positive post". Sorry, because my english is quite poor and maybe I don't explane very well. I'll do my best. What I mean whit "positive talking" is: tell what is good and what is not, without put it in hell, every time something is wrong. We already had tons and tons of thread complaining about what'wrong (not yet here, good luck). I was just hoping that this forum could be a place where is possible read and write, without need of shouting against or danger to beeing banned because you just want to tell somethings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 I was just hoping that this forum could be a place where is possible read and write, without need of shouting against or danger to beeing banned because you just want to tell somethings. M_C That is the exact reason why there is a Maxwell forum in CGA, we were denied the ability to freely talk about issues on the NL forum, and Jeff was gracious enough to give us a place to discuss these issues. So far only one person that was using pirated software has been banned from CGA, and I haven't witnessed any shouting going on. If your looking for a place to discuss what is going on with Maxwell without fear of being banned for bringing up the wrong topic then this is your place. As for my "Last Chance to get 60% off these rocks" comment I'm still not sure how this is something that should disqualify me from being an administrator. It's simply an attempt to try and make light of a situation that is less than desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_c Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Marco- I think there's a difference between sarcasm and flaming, and Devin was using sarcasm. I know. Nothing against Devin. But i think sometimes maybe attitude or mood make the difference, beeing a user or mods. Just read the title of this thread. Nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_c Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 ...If your looking for a place to discuss what is going on with Maxwell without fear of being banned for bringing up the wrong topic then this is your place. I know and therefore I'm here. As for my "Last Chance to get 60% off these rocks" comment I'm still not sure how this is something that should disqualify me from being an administrator. It's simply an attempt to try and make light of a situation that is less than desirable. Well, it's only my opinion, but I think is not with rocks that the Maxwell gallery is fullfilled and telling that beeing administrator is not "so" fair. Is more angry user attitude. That's all. I'm not happy about NL delay&communication, and if sombody is telling that, I think is fair. But not 10 times each. But maybe is just question of words, and perhaps I don't understand very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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