leoA4D Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 @AJLynn – Yeah, there is no way to measure which is best and it always comes down to a gut-ride, which is how MWR came to grace my life. As far as MWR, when I can get some reinforcements in, I am going back to beta. @Ernest – when you're done with the black helmet, clean it up and send it over. I need a snort, too. BTW, Modo is coming along, too. http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=8222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus3D Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Adam: Thanks for your nice comments on my photos, and about freelance photography hmm.. maybe, i'll think about it. However i'm looking more into combining photography and 3d into one to try to make something outta that now, and also accurate reproduction of photographed subjects in 3d. We'll see what happens.. AJLynn: Thanks and it's ok, problems exist to be solved. Right ? that's what i'm trying to do. Ofcourse sometimes as the arguments gets even more pointless than the last time it gets awfully boring and it feels like a complete waste of time but then again, shit happens. I admit i got bored of myself at times on this forum, if that makes any sense hehe. Leo: If i can comment on final Render for C4D i'd say cancel your order for that crap, i heard from friends of mine who use it and it crashes alot even after it's numerous bugfixes and patches and it ain't outputting such pretty results, just look at their gallery for fR2 for C4D, if there's one pretty image there then it's good but you will have a hard time finding 10 pretty renderings in their gallery. If i were you i'd cancel my order on it and find something better. / Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Leo: If i can comment on final Render for C4D i'd say cancel your order for that crap, i heard from friends of mine who use it and it crashes alot even after it's numerous bugfixes and patches and it ain't outputting such pretty results I would have to agree that you should cancel the fr2 pre-order. Cebas will honor your wishes, unlike NL. However, fr2 is NOT crap. It produces much better results with GI than C4D's AR2.5, but is too buggy to be all that useful yet. It has the same basic techniques that I read about with vray, so we should not write it off as a product with regard to image quality, just current performance. Unless something changes, Maxwell is a total write-off. The cost in time to make it work isn't worth the small advantages it may have over vray, fr2 or even Cinema's current engine in 'stochastic' mode (a slow, noisy but beautiful mode). That is probably less true for other specialties than arch-vis. But that's what most of us here do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I have AR 2.5, fR-2, MWR, and I'm on the list for VRay4C4D. I find that AR is still the best option for non-GI rendering. It's faster than fR and there are no compatibility issues at all. fR-2 is a lot faster for GI, but material/shader creation is a bit of a headache. I wish there was better documentation for their texture tree system. I'm finding essentially no use for MWR at the moment, as the setup and render times simply don't justify the results. That may change for certain types of renders (product viz, exterior stills) if/when they get the C4D plugin sorted. I do have high hopes for VRay based upon the large volume of high-quality work I've seen done with it, and reportedly fast render times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I would stop short of calling Maxwell a complete write-off. In several years if my computer is 16x as fast as my current one, with 8-16 gigs of RAM, and NL gives me a free or cheap upgrade to Maxwell 3.1, it will be useful. (I'm not saying that to piss off Max - I'm quite serious. My current computer is 20x as fast as the one I had in 2000, with 8x the RAM, 10x the storage and much, much faster 3D, so another similar upgrade would make Maxwell reasonable.) WRT fR2 for Mac - cancel your preorder, re-evaluate after it's out a couple of months, at worst it costs you a couple hundred extra but meanwhile you free up the cash and don't worry about the release date. After the Maxwell fiasco, can you say that's not worth it? But the software has obvious potential. When I was using the Windows version for my thesis final, I was doing 20 minute renders that wouldn't have been feasible in AR2 or Maxwell even given several hours. Even with crashes 10% of the time it saved me days of work and render time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoA4D Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Messrs Maximus3D, Burden, AdamT, and AJLynn, Interesting comments all. Thanks. More are welcome. I do feel VrayForC4D tugging at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Interesting comments all. Thanks. More are welcome. OK, you're ugly, too! Rodney Dangerfield joke: My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Hey Leo, I'm in your boat too, using Cinema on OS X. The lesson I have learned the hard way is that there's very little benefit to "preordering" software. I don't think I'll be doing that again. Call me spoiled, but I'd rather start using a new package when it's reasonably stable and well documented; I guess I'm just not cut out to be a beta tester. Of all the options on the horizon now (Maxwell, fR2, Vray) I'm most confident about Vray. Although the Vray forum can tend to have an anti-mac attitude that makes me feel like I'm back in 7th grade (actually there was no Mac then, just the Apple //e), Vlado seems to be very responsive and interested in developing for OS X. Just as important is that Stefan (aka Illab) and Renato strike me as very trustworthy and honest guys. They've proven this over a long time at various forums. Nevertheless, I have not preordered because, despite their best intentions, there are still lots of unknowns. If anyone can pull this off, I'm sure they can. And when they do, I'll jump in line to place my order. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoA4D Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Hi Jack, I generally agree with what you said. As for preorders, I will not give any software developer or company money, a la Next Limit, before their product is on the street – period! "Caveat emptor", let the buyer beware, is the one good lesson software developers, not all but more than one, have reminded the world of recently. Clearly that means it is wise for the consumer to have a healthy measure of mistrust, about every aspect of the company, before extending trust. That said, I don't have a problem if money does not change hands, I can withdraw the preorder at any time without penalty, the company operates under recognized ethical business standards, has a good client and product track record, etc. The Maxwell Render/Next Limit debacle has hightlighted the fact that the software industry can sell products that are seriously flawed using dubious means and methods without fear of accountability, other than from the consumer. It appears they are working hard to join the other industries that operate similarly such as those that sell bridges, deeds to the moon and land under water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imanobody Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 The whole software industry, in general, are one to two laws behind a scam. Normal laws don't seem to apply to them and whenever they screw up - it's not their fault and you have to pay to get the upgrade to fix a problem that shouldn't have been there to start with. I know my software has several bad bugs that the company refuses to acknowledge (rule #1 of the software industry - never admite a problem till you've fixed it) and I have to buy yet another upgrade to get a working version of the feature that I paid for in the last version. Yet this is legal because they are a software company and software development can't be predicted... but what can be predicted in any company!? I never buy software till it's been out on the market for at least 6 months, even then it will still have bugs, just not as many. If I sound a little aggravated - it's true, you would be to if you had to deal with 10 crashes per hour whenever you use a feature that's been in their package since V1. Ofcourse these are the same people that can't seem to figure out how to make a bevel tool work right, so I shouldn't be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I definitely won't be parting with cash in advance of delivery for software, but VRay4C4D actually doesn't require payment in advance. It's just a means for the developers to gauge interest level, which was necessary for them to do before committing to the enterprise. As a bonus you get a discount when it does ship, but you can cancel before then. finalRender worked the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 The whole software industry, in general, are one to two laws behind a scam. Normal laws don't seem to apply to them and whenever they screw up - it's not their fault and you have to pay to get the upgrade to fix a problem that shouldn't have been there to start with. The day my artwork is without flaws I'll apply for sainthood. And I'ld get it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imanobody Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I'm not saying that I expect software to run 100% and never see any problems, but when you have a program that crashes at least 10 times an hour whenever you use a feature that they've had since V1 (MANY years ago) then there is a problem. What's even worse is that they tell me that there's no problem, but then a version later you'll find the "fixed instability problems with feature X" deep in their listing of "upgrades". I'm not saying that all software companyies are like this, but it seems to me that many of the 3D companies are. Adobe, though I'm not a big fan of them, make a rock solid software; I can't even remember Photoshop crashing once in the many years that I've used it (I'm sure it has, but I can't remember it). If a client came to you and said that the shadows were too dark, would you say "Ok" and change it till he liked it, or would you claim that they are fine and they need to get their eyes checked. If you were a software company, you would do the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That said, I don't have a problem if money does not change hands, I can withdraw the preorder at any time without penalty, the company operates under recognized ethical business standards, has a good client and product track record, etc. That's true. And it's important to note that both Cebas and VrayforC4D are fundamentally different than Next Limit. They don't take your money until they ship. While I'm disappointed that Cebas has been slow with fR2, and poor as communicators, they immediately honored my request to cancel the preorder. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 On another note i have seen the 3d world review for maxwell and i think they are mistaken it for another program. Its funny because i remember the discussion on cgarchitect about doing a review of maxwell 1.0 and the importance of being as fair and objective as possible. But this review looks like it has very little in common with the truth. Its all about ethics i guess:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 On another note i have seen the 3d world review for maxwell...it has very little in common with the truth. What are the problems you see with the review (which I haven't seen yet)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 This is talked about on the maxwell forum too. Some points of th article 1 9/10 overall point 2 fast 3 material editor is one of best ever 4 coop great and at works with buckets (huh?) 5 they say large and positive maxwell community and forum expensive magazine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 OMG. Who was the author of the review? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gattomanzo Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 OMG. Who was the author of the review? its probably ... better i stay quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 its probably ... better i stay quiet That's right... I admit it... it was... me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olbo Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That's right... I admit it... it was... me. *ROFL* "I am Brian and so is my wife!" take care Oleg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave davidson Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 there was two peeps that wrote the review, Inaki Gonzalez and David Wood it really is a stunning review for maxwell and im sure users who use reviews in this mag to base thier buying powers on will still buy it. they said it was quick in relation to the kind of renders it produces. ive read it 4 times now and im still smiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danatgia Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I've just read the review and am dumbfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Is there an online version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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