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I've absolutely had it with this 'industry'


joebloggs
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what would be a good follow up to those shows is filming the owners fixing up the hash job the makeover people did.

 

I second what Bruce has said, It has taken years of "educating" the architects in the process, many have taken it on board. There are a few that haven't and probably never will, but on the whole it is a lot better than before. In some ways getting them to use Revit and Sketch has helped in the education process, so now they have a far better appreciation as to whats involved.

 

One thing I struggle with is being able to differentiate the difference between a design development project and a marketing project. Like most of us I really want to turn the DD images into marketing ones. Often its just not appropriate. I just cant help myself sometimes :)

 

many a time those last minute change emails get met with a barrage of expletives, a strongly worded email which gets deleted and re-written many times before finally being set with a "Sure no problem" once I calm down. Unfortunately if that request is made face to face, my self-editing feature doesn't always work. I am working on keeping my mouth shut until they are out of ear shot.

 

jhv

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Joe,

 

I don't know the calibre of your work, but I get calls weekly from studios asking...actually begging...to find talented artists to hire. If you think your portfolio is up to snuff and you're willing to move I'd be more than happy to introduce you to a few companies. The same goes for anyone here. I spend 3-4 months of the year travelling to events and visiting studios and the vast majority have more work than they know what to do with, so as a whole I think the industry is doing very well right now. The key is not pigeon holing yourself into a certain type of clients within an already niche industry. Those who are most successful in this field are those who recognize their skills reach beyond more than just arch viz and those who know how to pick the right clients. It's not easy.

 

That having been said, I get it, I was in production for around 10 years before I decided to leave the day to day grind. I got tired of last minute changes, all-nighters and insane client requests. I've found I much prefer other areas of this field and have not looked back since.

 

Anyway, if you or anyone else here is thinking about changing companies or moving from freelance to working in a studio, I'd be happy to take a look at your work and let you know if your work and skillset is of the calibre I know people are looking for. Just shoot me an email at jmottle@cgarchitect.com

 

I wish you luck Joe, I too have had my lows in this field so I know how it can at times feel a bit hopeless.

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I agree with Jeff,

 

We are constantly hiring here in squint. However, the work Ive seen from applicants has been pretty poor most of the time. (We didnt get a single good applicant to our aust office from the last cgarchitect ad.. just loads of mid range work)

 

 

 

Joe,

 

I don't know the calibre of your work, but I get calls weekly from studios asking...actually begging...to find talented artists to hire. If you think your portfolio is up to snuff and you're willing to move I'd be more than happy to introduce you to a few companies. The same goes for anyone here. I spend 3-4 months of the year travelling to events and visiting studios and the vast majority have more work than they know what to do with, so as a whole I think the industry is doing very well right now. The key is not pigeon holing yourself into a certain type of clients within an already niche industry. Those who are most successful in this field are those who recognize their skills reach beyond more than just arch viz and those who know how to pick the right clients. It's not easy.

 

That having been said, I get it, I was in production for around 10 years before I decided to leave the day to day grind. I got tired of last minute changes, all-nighters and insane client requests. I've found I much prefer other areas of this field and have not looked back since.

 

Anyway, if you or anyone else here is thinking about changing companies or moving from freelance to working in a studio, I'd be happy to take a look at your work and let you know if your work and skillset is of the calibre I know people are looking for. Just shoot me an email at jmottle@cgarchitect.com

 

I wish you luck Joe, I too have had my lows in this field so I know how it can at times feel a bit hopeless.

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I agree with Jeff,

 

We are constantly hiring here in squint. However, the work Ive seen from applicants has been pretty poor most of the time. (We didnt get a single good applicant to our aust office from the last cgarchitect ad.. just loads of mid range work)

 

I know a lot of studios who have hired from the job board, sometimes their best artists, but you and MANY others are looking for higher level talent. I'll soon be starting a service to vet resumes and portfolios and try to put artists in touch with those who are looking. I'm determined to find artists to fill these positions. There is talent out there who don't realize how good they are or simply looking in the wrong places. The amount of movement between high end studios of the same people over and over should not be the norm IMHO.

 

Anyway, not to get too far off topic on this thread, but the point is that if you are talented there is a lot of work to be had in this field. Especially in higher end production, project management and client facing positions.

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Left 10 years ago -- never looked back... So a few key insights...

 

1. Renderings aren't paid for by architects (or ad agencies), they are paid for by owners who want them or need them.

 

2. Renderings aren't really that important! Sorry if that offends anyone (or everyone), but they aren't. Why? Because they aren't needed by code, construction, or technical processes. They are a luxury. In most cases, owners aren't willing to fund the cost for their egos. After all, when the architect and contractor are done, they can just photograph the actual building. After all, good renderings do cost a great deal of money.

 

4. Everything will get better!!! Why??? Because, if you are smart enough to work in 3D, use advanced software, work in multiple dimension, meet a deadline, and are generally smart -- YOU CAN DO ANYTHING. You didn't waste 10 years, you spent 10 years creating complicated art that actually taught you how to think in an advanced way (mental body building). Don't underestimate how great you are! See the Steve Jobs' commencement speech.

 

6. All you need to do is develop a map of your skills, talents, mental ability, and what you can be 'great' at. Find something related or adjacent to it in the economic structure or model that 'pays'. Then develop that plan, then end up wherever your 'dreams' take you. It isn't that tough. Just remember that change is a series of easy steps, things may be difficult in other ways after the change, and that you may have some regrets; however, your achievements stand on their own. Your 'portfolio' is your creative addition to the universe. Nothing can take that from you! Just make your 'next' plan and make it happen. If you did this for ten years -- you can do almost anything!!! More importantly, you can definitely do most things very well. After all, doesn't Peyton Manning just make a bunch of pizzas now?!!???! If a guy that great can go from Superbowls to slinging pizza -- you can do anything else! Good luck!!!

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Left 10 years ago -- never looked back... So a few key insights...

 

1. Renderings aren't paid for by architects (or ad agencies), they are paid for by owners who want them or need them.

 

2. Renderings aren't really that important! Sorry if that offends anyone (or everyone), but they aren't. Why? Because they aren't needed by code, construction, or technical processes. They are a luxury. In most cases, owners aren't willing to fund the cost for their egos. After all, when the architect and contractor are done, they can just photograph the actual building. After all, good renderings do cost a great deal of money.

 

3. I left the business directly 10 years ago and have never looked back! I was very very good. I knew all +/- 450 command of Autocad, worked on 3Ds Studio 2.0 through Max 6.0 (as a beta tester). I was a very strong Autolisp programmer. At one point, I had a 192 core Renderdrive hardware rendering farm. At that point it was pretty rare, but I was also a licensed architect (with a 5-year degree, etc.) However, after 9/11, the tech bust, etc., it became pretty clear. There was no economic viability in the rendering game. I had a couple of kids and house payment... Just to be clear, I miss the creativity, fun, beauty, and excitement of the process EVERY DAY! However, I haven't missed a house payment lately... Life if full of choices.

 

4. Then everything got better!!! (or will get better for you). Why??? Because, if you are smart enough to work in 3D, use advanced software, work in multiple dimension, meet a deadline, and are generally smart -- YOU CAN DO ANYTHING. You didn't waste 10 years, you spent 10 years creating complicated art that actually taught you how to think in an advanced way (mental body building). Don't underestimate how great you are! See the Steve Jobs' commencement speech.

 

5. I now manage the building of very involved hospital and medical care construction project types, complete world class financial and project costing tools and work, and I make a difference to the world around me everyday. The pediatric cancer treatment area I am working on will be done next week! That will make you smile.

 

6. All you need to do is develop a map of your skills, talents, mental ability, and what you can be 'great' at. Find something related or adjacent to it in the economic structure or model that 'pays'. Then develop that plan, then end up wherever your 'dreams' take you. It isn't that tough. Just remember that change is a series of easy steps, things may be difficult in other ways after the change, and that you may have some regrets; however, your achievements stand on their own. Your 'portfolio' is your creative addition to the universe. Nothing can take that from you! Just make your 'next' plan and make it happen. If you did this for ten years -- you can do almost anything!!!

 

I wanted to really hate this post, but I ended up really liking it.

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hmm that post gets the hubris award.

im also awarding one 'internet medal' for being *very very good* and knowing *all the autocad commands*

 

C'mon, ... AutoLisp as well, that's gotta be worth another 'internet medal'

 

For a minute there I thought I'd fallen into an Anthony Robbins 'Awaken the giant within' seminar!

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1. Renderings aren't paid for by architects (or ad agencies), they are paid for by owners who want them or need them.

 

2. Renderings aren't really that important! Sorry if that offends anyone (or everyone), but they aren't. Why? Because they aren't needed by code, construction, or technical processes. They are a luxury. In most cases, owners aren't willing to fund the cost for their egos. After all, when the architect and contractor are done, they can just photograph the actual building. After all, good renderings do cost a great deal of money.

 

I think this depends on the project... for a normal commissioned design, renderings aren't needed, yes. And they will only be done if the client wants/needs images for marketing and is willing to pay for it - if he wants to sell a couple of dozen residences what are a few thousand €/$ for renderings?

But for architectural competitions they are needed and today most of the time requested as part of the presentation. I this case the architect has to pay for them and for the majority of competitions he will not get payed for his work if he don't acquire one of the prizes.

But i think in both cases renderings can be very important!

 

I'm an architect too and i don't think that i will work in the archviz business for my whole life (But who knows...). I'm doing it now because i like it and because i think that the market is still very good and i can make a living out of it. But i think in 5-10 years the situation could have been changed. The software and hardware is getting better and better and everything will be much more intergrated. And the younger architects are more trained in 3d. I think there will be always a demand for the high end artistic competition rendering or animations. But the normal shots for advertising and smaller competitions could be done inhouse, because the BIM package offers a good enough image out of the box.

 

But we'll see...

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I joined the industry about 12 years ago, and out of those 12 years I could probably only count 6 solid years as being in a full time 3d visualization position. There is no doubt that one has to love the work enough to put in the effort required in finding and maintaining workload. Likewise, one has to diversify oneself just to be available when that type of work is available. Unless a 3d visualization specialist is very fortunate, they will also have to deal with unpleasant clients if they want to only do 3d visualization full-time.

 

 

Most of my time spent these days is in preliminary site design and 'simple' elevation renderings, but the technical skills that I use to excel at these things were for the most part learned durning my experience doing 3d visualizations.

 

 

Ted really hit the nail on the head. Renderings are predominantly a luxury in the architecture segment of the industry, very rarely a requirement. But that is not the case in all industries that make use of the very specific knowledge that is picked up from 3d architectural visualization.

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You should have stayed until right up to the housing bubble bursting. You could have made enough money for your grandchildren to retire at the age of 30.

 

I've been in here for coming on 11 years. 5 great years spent with Focus360 out in So Cal until the bubble burst really crushed that whole industry in that area. I'm now re-tooling an architects in house rendering pipeline so I've seen both worlds. The difference is pretty big. For a viz place, you are at the end of the of project when you just need sweet imagery. A lot of the decisions have already been made, so the changes are a little less massive and you can focus more on being creative. Working with an architect doing early bird renderings for bids or SD packages, the entire building can change 15 times before lunch. Since we do everything in house, the changes are made with financial impact to us but we absorb that cost and recover it other places. It's not uncommon for an architect to spend 100-150k to win a bid for a large job.

 

For a place like a viz studio (and some freelancers), most of them I know of have it in the contacts as to what is a change versus a change in scope. A lot of those places will take an 80 hour job and tack on about 20 hours for changes. Go over that 20 hours, then you might need to sign a change order and pay out more money.

 

I agree with that Jeff and Fooch said, we recently put out an ad for another full time rendering person. I'd say out of 50 people who submitted their portfolios we maybe had 2 or 3 that were actually good for our needs, which were we needed someone who can come in and hit the ground running. If you have the skills, you can be in insanely high demand in this industry. But it's hard to find those companies who are looking sometimes. And it can be discouraging to job search these days where you send out 8 inquiries in one day and maybe hear back from 1 of them..

 

Many of the students coming from even the better architecture schools don't really know rendering. They know a lot of bad habits in order to make an OK image. If you want to secure your lively hood, you might want to think about teaching these kids. I know there is or soon will be a high demand for good teachers in some of these programs.

 

The way I see it, the visualization industry is just now hitting puberty. It's changing and it's going to change even more over the next few years. As the older fuddy duddy architects are leaving, the newer ones to understand the impact that a good rendering can have are going to be taking over. A lot of architects are bringing the rendering in house so they can use it in the early stages where it doesn't make sense to hire that out to a 3rd party, but they still need those renderings for the job interviews.

 

To me, this industry is a lot like getting a puppy. You love the little guy but at the same time there are those days where you just want to rip your hair out run around your house screaming because the pup is driving you nuts.

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2. Renderings aren't really that important! Sorry if that offends anyone (or everyone), but they aren't. Why? Because they aren't needed by code, construction, or technical processes. They are a luxury. In most cases, owners aren't willing to fund the cost for their egos. After all, when the architect and contractor are done, they can just photograph the actual building. After all, good renderings do cost a great deal of money.

 

I would like to take a contradictory position not because I am offended, but I would like casual visitors to get a different point of view.

 

When our services are taken within this narrow context of "project rendering" then perhaps the above might be true. When you take into account the value of good imagery to the BUSINESS of real-estate then there is significant value to the work.

 

We help architects, engineers, developers, win significant competitions, we help close deals for space that dosen't exist, we act as a facilitator between stakeholders in the process, supporting decision making, and foster communication.

 

All in all, this translates into serious dollars, that could arguably be difficult or impossible to re-capture without the services we provide.

 

The definition of "important" makes a difference in the calculation, depending on the post's point of view, media companies, entertainment industry, professional athletics, the arts, and business whose sole purpose is to develop a product or service that will find an audience and in turn produce benefit (profit) for employees, users, owners, etc. could be considered "not important".

 

It is important to remember that after a building is completed it is really the beginning of the life of the building. What happens within the building justifies it's existences, without the worldwide economy working, there is no reason (or resources) to build buildings, "important" or not.

 

Architects (I find) tend to assign significant importance to their role in the world, this is (in my opinion) a case of the lens one views the world through is strongly colored by their role one plays within it.

 

Again, I am not offended, there have been many times I have been told that:

A. "I should take a weekend and learn this stuff" - unnamed architect client from years ago

B. "With XXXXXX technology available now, your(our) industry is going to soon be obsolete" -refrain from both ourside and withing this very forum

C. "After all it comes down to button-pushing"

 

I hope that our industry gets stronger, and with maturity of the industry, members demand and get more respect and continue to stand up for themselves, especially in situations like the original poster finds himself. I don't fault anyone who leaves, it can be tough to make it work, but if you walk around any large city, the amount of activity leaves me to believe there is plenty of work to go around, at least here in the states.

 

my 2¢

 

-Nils Norgren - Neoscape

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As for the extra time spent working on a project and not getting paid.... reminds me of these words:

"A client knows when they are getting an extra 20% of a candy bar because they can see the difference. But they don't know they are getting 20% more service because they can't see it."

This really means that if you go out to eat every day, you can 'see' when you are getting great service because you can compare it to previous visits... however if you go out to eat once a year, you really don't know if the waiter gave 20% more than normal. That's our industry. Folks hire us every now and then for service and will ask us for everything under the moon because they don't really know what is included and what is extra. I spell out what is included in my contract yet I try to work with clients and do give a little more if need be. However if they keep stepping over the line, I do let them know that it is additional service and fee. Some back away, some accept it and pay. It's just business.

Really you have to decide what type of client you want to work with, and let them know upfront what service they will receive and at what price. That way they know when you ask for additional fee/time that it is justified.

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Have to agree with Nils...

 

But illustrations/ renderings are crucial to win jobs and not only win jobs but to convince clients of the ideas. Most architectural clients CANNOT imagine the building from plan and elevation. THey need the illustration, in SA you have to submit illustration in any case to council.

 

Any client, big or small need illustrations, as far as quality is concerned that is a different story.

 

Finding a good 3d artist is not easy, there arent many out there and I cant agree that "technical proficiency in working drawings is more valued than ability to create pretty pictures" is more valued, I beg to differ. One can find MANY guys to do the technical drawings, the market is flooded with them, be it architects or draughtsmen, as mentioned finding a good 3d artist is far harder. I see it all the time many companys have a few 6 or so technical staff and the rest contracted just for the job.

 

The problem is that you dont need 6 illustration staff you probably only need one depending on the size of company vs technical staff.

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And of course communication is key too, it's probably at the heart of most of the worlds ills but alas divorce still happens, Israel Palestine still happens and working for architects who are themselves are crap communicators, still happens. We are surrounded by piss poor communication. The visualiser can be the Henry Kissinger of communicators yet still be left high and dry because the architect is a poor communicator with his or her client.Design takes time and good design takes more time, the architect knows this yet many will still bend to the wind from the developer and say yes boss, next week then.

How can you ever be happy in the arch viz business if you hate architects so much?

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I tend to agree. Spending so much time on the road I get to see technologies and products that are sometimes 2-3 years away from even being made public and there are SO many new fields opening up where the skillsets learned as viz artists can apply. If you really do your homework and follow the trends you'll see quite a few opportunities out there that are complementary to viz. Just look at any of the top 5-10 viz studios and look at the type of work they are doing. You see viz, interactive, installations, electronics, 3d printing, VR, Augmented Reality, robotics...the list goes on. If there is one thing I've learned from my own path in this industry is that if you are determined, you can set your own course. Don't underestimate the knowledge most people here have. Very few have the artistic & technical skills, determination and prowess to absorb new information and technology like there are in field. Apply that anywhere with a cross over to the knowledge you already have and you're bound to do well.

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How can you ever be happy in the arch viz business if you hate architects so much?

 

Harry,

I think you've misunderstood the point of what I was saying there apart from quoting me out of context. So I'll try and explain it a little bit more clearly... the original post was from a person who is apparently unhappy in the business and makes numerous references to the architects that he works for moving the goalposts for the visualiser without making allowances for extra time / money. Another person replies that the problem is one of communication, that this visualiser needs to communicate with the Architect better - my point is that the visualiser can be the best communicator in the world and yet if the architect isn't communicating well with his client then it isn't going to make much difference to the visualisers deadlines, I was saying this in defence of the original poster who may well be a brilliant communicator but still have such issues because of the architect's failings. My point was that there are many links in the chain and ALL of those links need to be communicating well for a satisfactory result.

So when I say MANY (architects) will bend to the wind of the developer, I'm not saying all architects do this. Therefore for you to conclude that I generally hate architects and that I am unhappy in the industry is a bit of a flawed assumption. I trained in architecture, I have very happily worked in architecture for 30 years, most of my good friends are architects from all over the world and yes, there are some excellent architects who are superb, communicators, there are also excellent architects who are crap communicators and ,surprise surprise, there are some crap architects that take themselves way too seriously too....

 

There are some really good points made here, it was mentioned early on that one of the most important business skills is the ability to say "No" - to pick your clients. Picking the wrong clients can create a downward spiral effect on your career. Having great clients can allow you to work to your potential and fill your portfolio with work you're proud of. It's easier said than done of course.

 

And of course communication is key too, it's probably at the heart of most of the worlds ills but alas divorce still happens, Israel Palestine still happens and working for architects who are themselves are crap communicators, still happens. We are surrounded by piss poor communication.

 

The visualiser can be the Henry Kissinger of communicators yet still be left high and dry because the architect is a poor communicator with his or her client.

 

Unfortunately I think it is also a symptom of a greater malaise and one that we should all do our small part in trying to stamp out and that is a general undervaluing of "design". Design takes time and good design takes more time, the architect knows this yet many will still bend to the wind from the developer and say yes boss, next week then. The UK has all of the "property porn" TV that shows design makeovers in minutes, with miraculous transformations occurring to ridiculous timeframes, all of which conspires to devalue the perception of time required for good design. We should - every day - try and get across to anyone that will listen, that good design only really happens in good time.

As you can see as well there was the secondary point that good design only really happens in good time. A message that I'm sure most people here would actually be supportive of.

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Airport retail is expanding like crazy now that check-in takes more time.

 

Hartsfield in Atlanta recently had one of the biggest expansions ever. 40 shops and restaurants - 40 high quality renderings required.

This is true, I have two projects under construction at the Denver airport and one starting right after New Years. We were caught up a year and half ago in the ever changing projects standards the airport was creating at the time and was starting to require of all projects. We had to have four renderings of the stores that are just around 1,000 SF, four of each store. This was for each step of the design review process, new renderings for the changes they requested.

 

Of course, from the Airport Design Review architect we were told since we were dong them in Revit all we had to do was "hit the render button"...that told us right there how little they actually knew about the process....

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Of course, from the Airport Design Review architect we were told since we were dong them in Revit all we had to do was "hit the render button"...that told us right there how little they actually knew about the process....

 

Agreed about Revit. The most limited "render" options available. Revit is NOT designed for rendering a final product. We have some retail renderings done in Revit and then sometimes I'll get asked to do some 3D renderings and I bring them over to Max and Photoshop and create some "real" renderings.

 

Revit's great for those initial idea renderings to see how things are looking in context, but it is horrific to see what models are being inserted into a Revit model. Sinks, Cabinets, Furniture...all that stuff look so generic in Revit and I always take them out.

 

In this field people need to see to believe...

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Wow. This is an interesting read. Quite a few great points being made.

 

..Do you imagine a nice house, a nice car, holidays etc one day? Chances are none of those will happen if you do this for a living....but every year since about 2008 it has got worse.

 

I had all that. It took 20 years working up from nothing in this industry to get to. But I did. It lasted a while and I experimented with feeling secure. But then the fall of 2008 happened. All new work dried up in an instant and my marriage ended. Same week. There is a connection. Being a freelance renderer is hard on a marriage, though as a parent I was able to work from home and spend more time caring for my kids than their mother.

 

I do look at Jeff's Job Board, sometimes just to remind myself that there is work out there or these firms wouldn't be looking for talent. I even applied to one that I was exceptionally suited for. The ad focused on high-end artistic and general production abilities, and not on specific skills using Autodesk products. I did not even get a call back. I also do not have an idea what those sort of positions would pay so it's hard for me to weigh that against freelance.

 

I've worked in rendering for over 30 years and seen all the major changes, tried to keep up or sometimes even lead. But I can't say where things are going for us as an industry or people working in it. So the thoughts presented in this thread are very valuable.

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My interest in this field began my senior year of Architecture school in the fall of 1996. However, I was just dabbling in it. I was using Truspace and didn't know how I could get CAD data over to it at the time and it was just frustrating.

 

 

Then in the Spring of 1997 when I started working full time was when I just went for it. My co-worker and I had a mutual interest in it and Kinetix had just come out with 3DS Max R1 I think? I had been using 3D Studio DOS before that. Long story short, I kept up with the software and kept retooling my technique. Joined CG Architect in 2002 and received and incredible amount of input and help from everyone here over the years.

 

 

I was let go of my architecture job in early 2009 and tried to start up my own 3D company. It did not pan out as planned and went back to working with an Architecture firm. However, during this time an entire new set of skills emerged.

 

 

With the onslaught of BIM came a whole new territory for us 3D folks to explore. The office I was now working with wanted to stay ahead of the curve. I learned how to use Revit, Navisworks, Vasari, Image Modeler, Photogrammetry, Point Cloud, ReCap, Catch 123D....all that stuff. I even learned how to use the Unity gaming engine with our 3D models. Incredible tools for visualization. I was able to apply a lot of this stuff into our production pipeline. I learned so much more in the last few years than I learned in the last 10 just doing what I thought was progress.

 

 

I suppose my point is that we need to evolve and explore other areas that could benefit from our expertise. There's a lot of new territory out there. We just need to look for it. There will always be a need for professional work in this field. The hard part is finding the people that recognize and embrace the technology that is out there. I think location, location, location has always been good advice for getting a good job. So is being at the right place at the right time. I was lucky to find a place that just happened to need this at the time.

 

 

Just my thoughts...

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