Salary Negotioations Advice

[stevethepirate]

Hi everyone,

 

I was just wondering if you guys could maybe help me out. I want to renegotiate with my boss about my salary.

 

I feel that I'm currently being underpaid for my vray 3D renders. I'm currently in a full-time job 8 to 5 at an Architect & Design firm and getting R50 a hour. R50 = $4.5/€ 3.4. I already have my 4 year degree in Multimedia and have been working in the industry for 6 months.

 

Do you guys believe this is a reasonable amount? I have a great interest in the field and I believe my work is of high quality. I don't want to post renders here seeing as I don't have the rights to. :/

 

Any guidelines or advice would be appreciated!

 

Thanks

[Corey Beaulieu]

This is a hard question to answer as the minimum wage in the US is $7.25 an hour so you are well below what we would pay our most basic of employees. I understand that income needs vary greatly from country to country, but $4.50 seems low.

 

If however, 1 Rand can spend like 1 US dollar in your country, meaning R50 in South Africa would spend like $50 would in the US, then you are doing quite well.

 

You just have to find some other comparison to see how things relate to one another.

[Nic H]

it depends on the quality of your work and the speed at which you do it

[heni30]

Try to find out what the going rate is for other local artists - maybe you can call studios to find out or

through networking.

 

AND you definitely have to change your username in forums like these.

Edited July 8, 2014 by heni30

[Tommy L]

Try to find out what the going rate for other local artists - maybe you can call studios to find out or

through networking.

 

AND you definitely have to change your username in forums like these.

 

Is he really called Steve the Pirate? I'd definitely ask for AaaaaRRRRaise if I were you.

[Justin Hunt]

considering the high cost of living in SA, R50/hour is low. would barely cover petrol.

 

jhv

[stevethepirate]

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

I wanted to compare internationally as well just to hear what other guys start with and just to give me some insight in the matter.

 

Firstly I believe it's best to post questions like these anonymously hence the alias.

 

I've been looking for some local artists to ask but most of them are within companies which makes it difficult to ask such personal questions.

 

I do push out work rather fast(normally 1 restaurant/residence a week/7 working days) but changes from internal designers/architects prolong the process of being able to deliver more projects. Which is understandable as clients do normally want changes.

 

@Corey yeah unfortunately the rand isn't that strong and living costs are quite high - but I would really not mind the equivalent of $50 here!

[stevethepirate]

hmmm my previous post seemed to vanish.

 

Anyway thanks for the replies guys!Much appreciated!

 

I asked it here because I wanted some insight what guys starts out with in other countries as well. Just to get a bit of a perspective on things.

 

@george I believe it would be better to ask questions like these anonymously.

Then it's a bit difficult to gather these information from other 3D viz artists seeing as their all within a company as well which makes it difficult to ask these personal questions. But I need to network a bit more yes.

 

@corey sadly the R50 is not nearly equivalent to that of $50. In terms of living costs and so on. :/ I would realllly not mind a 50$ wage here!

 

@justin yeah that is why I'm trying to gather some information before negotiating with 'the big man' because one can't survive on this.

 

 

Then

[stevethepirate]

hmmm my previous posts doesn't seem to show :/

 

but I'll type again....

 

Firstly thank you for all the replies! It helps to just put some of it in perspective and hearing what guys start out with internationally. I want to get some info before talking to 'the big man'. Because with the current wage one can't really make a living.

 

- corey unfortunately the rand is not very strong and 50$ is no nearly as strong as R50.

 

- george I believe this is quite personal so I thought it would be best to post this anonymously.

 

Also I need to do more networking yes but the 3d industry is not very big here and it's difficult to ask these kind of questions to other 3D artists which are also in other companies via email. But I agree with you. I just wanted to gather some info from international artists

[RyderSK]

Seems to be the median income (what most people have opposed to artifically high average) in SA is around 20 000 ZAR/ 1340 euros. { Architecture/ Media/ Graphics etc.. seem to rank 18 000 as average though}

You're currently way below this, so your income is very low even for your local economy.

 

If you're good enough, start thinking of freelance.

[heni30]

- george I believe this is quite personal so I thought it would be best to post this anonymously.

 

Also I need to do more networking yes but the 3d industry is not very big here and it's difficult to ask these kind of questions to other 3D artists which are also in other companies via email. But I agree with you. I just wanted to gather some info from international artists

 

Oh, I wasn't talking about anonymity - it was just your choice of the word pirate - Steve the Pirate -which people on this website are very sensitive to (pirated; piracy) and I guess there are some not too good associations with the what's happening on your east coast in the Somalia region.

 

I think something like "Steve the Viz Guru" would work much better.

 

And in general the handle you choose is a reflection -even subconsciously - of your maturity and professionalism. So you want to steer clear of weird ones like "Napalm Death, nicnic, VelvetElvis, etc.

Edited July 8, 2014 by heni30

[stevethepirate]

Oh, I wasn't talking about anonymity - it was just your choice of the word pirate - Steve the Pirate -which people on this website are very sensitive to (pirated; piracy) and I guess there are some not too good associations with the what's happening on your east coast in the Somalia region.

 

I think something like "Steve the Viz Guru" would work much better.

 

And in general the handle you choose is a reflection -even subconsciously - of your maturity and professionalism. So you want to steer clear of weird ones like "Napalm Death, nicnic??????, VelvetElvis, etc.

 

 

ah! Well let me explain for those that are sensitive - It is actually a gaming nic. The "steve" part is from Wall-e so it's more like "Steeeeve" with that extended long tone pronunciation and "the pirate" is more a thing off that I'm quite a fan of the pirate era (Pirates of the Caribbean vibes)

[Smile of Fury]

Steve the Pirate is also from the movie Dodgeball. Not a bad guy to be named after.

 

As for the salary, do you have any idea what your boss charges clients for the work you do, or what hourly rate he bills your time? That could help with your negotiations.

[heni30]

Hmmmm..............Smile of Fury empathizes with Steve the Pirate.

 

Just Kidding!

 

I just thought of another sticky issue that I've experienced personally. If your boss is too sensitive he might feel betrayed if in his mind he's being fair and he might get paranoid that you're thinking of jumping ship and it could conceivably create an awkward situation that will NOT go back to the way it was. You suggested that there's not too much Viz going on in your area so maybe Juraj's suggestion of freelancing might be the most viable option.

 

Or he might happily agree to double your salary (I don't think so). You've just gotta play it by ear; just be aware of possible repercussions.

Edited July 8, 2014 by heni30

[Francisco Penaloza]

Sorry George, I do not agree with you, thinking about repercussions is the way bad boss think or want you to feel like they are making you a favor letting you work there. IMO you should do a little research of other companies around try to find out how much the pay, or even like Juraj mentioned look for "Similar" jobs, like drafting, designer 1 or Multimedia graphics anything related that can give you an idea of how much a intern, medium and senior is making then look for other companies for "possible jobs' if you find one it would be perfect then you can deal with your Boss a higher pay or you leave. Or just go to your boss and tell him to make a review of your position so far, how much you produce, how good is your input for his company, and maybe you can ask for a little more responsibility to justify a better salary.

Asking for more money is not begging, it is not a favor, you are a professional, your company make money because of you, you are part of their assets so when happy you are better for the company, there in SA, here in USA anywhere.

CG architect does a yearly survey of salaries related to our industry, you should get a copy and then you'll find out how much people in your area are making in different stages of their career. Also Job seek website tells you salaries average.

Here in USA for what you do, minimum will be $15 hour.

 

Also thinking of freelancing because your salaries is to low , I don't think is a better option, because you work at the office then you work at home, it is a vicious circle hard to deal with it, if you plan in going SOLO some day then I will truly recommended, and maybe it can be a better thing for you to do, but take it as only solution because you don't know how to ask for more money in your Job, that's is not a valid option.

For me, do a self review, how much you think you worth to your company, do a job research around your area then Ask for more money, if not, look for other job, if nothing happens then try to do some freelancing and plan for try SOLO.

 

My cents worth opinion.

[Justin Hunt]

where about in SA are you? Salaries very quite a bit from province to province.

 

Being an ex South African I am interested too. When I left SA 16 years ago I was on around R2500 per month (with two years experience) and that was low then.

 

jhv

[Arnold Sher]

Hi Mr Pirate... You are welcome to PM and i will try and help you if i can...

[stevethepirate]

Steve the Pirate is also from the movie Dodgeball. Not a bad guy to be named after.

 

As for the salary, do you have any idea what your boss charges clients for the work you do, or what hourly rate he bills your time? That could help with your negotiations.

 

 

That is a good idea to go by thanks! Will look into that!

 

- george: Thanks yes I know: " but sometimes you got to risk it to get the biscuit" - Fired up! I'm currently still benefiting from working in an office and learning a lot so I'll look into the freelance option in the future. Thanks for your input though!

 

-Francisco: I like your way of thinking but as I've replied to george just above I'm still benefiting from the office and learning the process of working with internal designers and architects. I'm looking into the local companies at the moment and some job opportunities to try and compare!

 

- Justin: I'm currently in Pretoria east but yes The Johannesburg area is the prime spot to be in at the moment! Wow 2.5k is nothing! How did you live?

 

- Arnold: Thank you! I've send you a pm

[Justin Hunt]

I didn't , it was one of the reasons why we left.

 

 

Just for interest sake, I'd love to know what the current rate would be for someone with many years experience would be.

 

 

jhv

Edited July 9, 2014 by Justin Hunt

[Morne Erasmus]

This is a bit generalizing the issue but a rough guide would be:

 

If you are a junior (6 months experience) then I'm afraid you will struggle to get a good salary in SA working for somebody as an Archviz artist.

 

If you have a little bit more experience (maybe 2 years) and you have a half decent portfolio and you're working at a medium to large Architectural firm you should be able to get about R 15 000 to R 20 000 a month MINIMUM. If however you decide NOT to work for an Architectural firm, but rather a 3D Archviz Studio, then you're going to be stuck with your current salary for the most part, maybe you'll get R 15 000 MAXIMUM at one of these studios. Unless you're the boss and own the studio, you're not going to earn much compared to somebody in the UK or US for example.

 

As stated in the beginning of my post, this is HEAVY generalization, so the low pay is not true for all local Archviz studios, but it is true however for a large number of them. Just keep an eye on the local job sites, you'll know what I mean.

 

Also note I'm talking about somebody that is an all rounder in Archviz, not just a modeller or just a texture artist.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Morne