High-End Workstation Configuration Required !

[dhaivatsoni]

Hi Guys,

 

Currently I'm cornered with my Current PC, I m going to threw that and going to build one, The Perfect & Kick-Ass Workstation, Yeah.... That what I really Need...

 

Actually I m getting Angrier & angrier with my this PC....

 

So,

 

I wanna know that what kind of Parts do I use?

 

 

Budget : 10000+ $

 

(Note: Please dont give me any suggestions about buying AMD, They Sucks at my point of view )

 

Main Uses:

 

3Dsmax + VRay 90%

Graphics Design 5%

Gaming 5%

 

Aim: Fastest Rendering with Vray in 3dsmax

 

I got NO IDEA...

 

i7 or Xeon?

GTX ot Quadro?

 

SUGGEST ME

 

Pls Help Its Urgent!!

 

Thanks In ADV

[Nikolaos M]

With 10000+$ (!!!) you can buy anything you wish or ever dreamed of. In fact you can build 3-4 powerfull WS's. Is there a specific shop in India that you prefer? Give us a link.

[Nic H]

10k lol

[Dimitris Tolios]

I could break $10K, but there was no need:

 

CPU: 2x Intel Xeon E5-2687W v3 10C/20T, 3.1~3.5GHz

Cooler: 2x Corsair H90 Hydro

Mobo: Asus Z10PE-D8 WS

RAM: 2x Crucial 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR4 2133 ECC

GPU:PNY NVIDIA Quadro K5200 8GB

OS Drive:Samsung XP941 512GB M.2

Storage Drive:Samsung 840 EVO 1TB

PSU:Seasonic PLATINUM-1000

Case:Corsair Obsidian 750D

 

 

Still this puppy is north of $8.9K.

 

The GPU could be a GTX Titan Black or GTX 980. It is there cause budget "allowed". The Quadro 5200 will game just fine @ 1440p or so, tho just for gaming is slower than either of the two above.

 

The M2 drive could be omitted and you can easily live with a single SATA SSD. The M2 is roughly 2x as fast.

Case, PSU etc - you can drop as much money as you want over that, won't make it faster.

Edited November 23, 2014 by dtolios

[Nikolaos M]

Dimitri, what about something like this for a main WS:

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-5960X 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($999.99 @ Amazon)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 280L 122.5 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Newegg)

Motherboard: Asus RAMPAGE V EXTREME EATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($466.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($529.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($279.99 @ Amazon)

Storage: Western Digital WD Black 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($253.98 @ SuperBiiz)

Storage: Western Digital WD Black 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($253.98 @ SuperBiiz)

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX Titan Z 12GB Video Card ($1499.99 @ Newegg)

Case: Phanteks Enthoo Primo White ATX Full Tower Case ($219.99 @ Newegg)

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 1000G2 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($149.99 @ NCIX US)

Optical Drive: Archgon CB-5021-GB Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($99.99 @ Amazon)

Monitor: Dell U2713H 60Hz 27.0" Monitor ($799.00 @ B&H)

Total: $5653.87

 

 

And something like this for a render node maybe:

 

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2695 V3 2.3GHz 14-Core Processor ($2339.99 @ SuperBiiz)

CPU Cooler: RAIJINTEK THEMIS Evo 65.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($44.99 @ NCIX US)

Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($185.99 @ Newegg)

Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($199.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.96 @ OutletPC)

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card ($129.99 @ NCIX US)

Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 ATX Mid Tower Case ($84.99 @ NCIX US)

Power Supply: Corsair RM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Micro Center)

Total: $3175.89

 

 

Just under 10K. Would be OK? Are there any serious drawbacks in a configuration like this? (I know, it's more of an academic conversation, I'm just "killing" time , but I'd like to learn some things about render nodes etc.)

Edited November 24, 2014 by nikolaosm

[Dimitris Tolios]

All depends on what you want to do.

For example, there are many things that are just a waste of money unless you know what you are getting it for. In a nutshell:

 

 

Titan Z: great card, but too expensive. Dual 980s will probably beat it @ gaming. The 12GB is a miss-representation of the reality = like all dual GPU boards it has 2x6GB. If only one GPU is used, it cannot pull extra buffer from the 2nd. Most workstation programs don't care for SLI, and that will be the case = one GPU will be idling if a Titan Z is your main workstation card. Sure, modding a Titan Z for watercooling and 1-2 slots width can allow for very high density (like 6-8 or more GK110 cores with 6GB each in a single box = big deal for some) but it is a niche card. It is "ok" for $1500, but was total waste for $3K when it first launched.

 

 

Rampage Mobo: it is few things this thing can do that a X99-A cannot. Mainly extreme overclocking which for starters won't happen without $250-300 or more dropped for a custom water cooling solution (the X99-A will need that anyways to push a 8-core properly), and even then you have to be lucky getting a CPU that will clock considerably higher or with considerable lower clocks on the Rampage and not the X99-A or the rest of its siblings. The Rampages are great for custom towers, have tailor fitted waterblocks for them and all that jazz, but its more of a "feel-good" luxury item with lots of gimmicks than a mandatory item for a workstation. Do I want one? Sure! Do I need one? neh...

 

 

Ultra Fast RAM: Issue is that the 5960X and Haswell-E in general can do higher than 2400-2666 when itself is overclocked (remember, the RAM controller is designed for 2133, you go 2400 = you are practically overclocking part of the CPU already). And there are no tangible benefits with faster RAM as there are with a faster CPU, so when you get the choice of overclocking just one of the two, the choice should be obvious.

For s1150, that is also haswell, we returns were diminishing past 1866. DDR4 has 2133 as a standard, but you see kits all the way to 3000, as if miraculously RAM became the bottleneck...nah, they just found a way to milk the RAM market that was stagnant for a couple of years as DDR3 innovation hit a ceiling, and you could get almost 100% of the performance whether going for DDR3-1866 or 2600.

 

 

Corsair RAM: waste of money at this point. Remember, Corsair doesn't make its own RAM. They just pick chips from Micron (Crucial) or Samsung etc. Since the CPUs & applications that can squeeze tangible performance benefits from the extra bandwidth are not here, paying extra for faster RAM is just a waste of money. And paying even more to bare the corsair logo and a bigger heatsink, is almost silly.

Remember, heatsinks were kinda useless with DDR3...DDR4 is even cooler running, lower powered etc. Big benefit for datacenters having a gazillion sticks, big headache for anyone who wants to "justify" a heatspreader or even worse a RAM waterblock! It is just looks, and lets leave it there.

 

 

Node + GTX: doesn't need even a $130 GPU.

Node + RAM: The node will probably be using more RAM than the workstation. Rendering large scenes in general needs RAM, and the more cores you have the more RAM you need. In the dual GPU I posted above, you could say you have 2x octa cores with 32GB each (tho they do share, unlike the Titan Z). I am trying to say that if 16GB of RAM safice for a 8-core system, doesn't mean that a 14C or 2x8C will be able to do the same on just 16GB.

 

 

Monitor: love my U2711, but If I was buying a $700-900 today, I would go for a 21:9 1440p. Teh sex!

[alexrecio]

I could break $10K, but there was no need:

 

CPU: 2x Intel Xeon E5-2687W v3 10C/20T, 3.1~3.5GHz

Cooler: 2x Corsair H90 Hydro

Mobo: Asus Z10PE-D8 WS

RAM: 2x Crucial 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR4 2133 ECC

GPU:PNY NVIDIA Quadro K5200 8GB

OS Drive:Samsung XP941 512GB M.2

Storage Drive:Samsung 840 EVO 1TB

PSU:Seasonic PLATINUM-1000

Case:Corsair Obsidian 750D

 

 

Still this puppy is north of $8.9K.

 

The GPU could be a GTX Titan Black or GTX 980. It is there cause budget "allowed". The Quadro 5200 will game just fine @ 1440p or so, tho just for gaming is slower than either of the two above.

 

The M2 drive could be omitted and you can easily live with a single SATA SSD. The M2 is roughly 2x as fast.

Case, PSU etc - you can drop as much money as you want over that, won't make it faster.

 

 

Why the hydro coolers? if I´m not mistaken, xeon cannot be overclocked...and they are less cooling demanding than regular I7 so a good cooler with silent fans should be enough, combined with a good noise dampening case...

 

On the other hand, one thing nobody talks about when building a workstation...power efficiency! that´s why a platinum PSU, a quadro, and xeon cpu's are a must IMO

 

And I rather go for 2 XEON E5 2697 v2....because you'd get 4 more threads to render each frame...

[Dimitris Tolios]

The coolers are just for looks, and perhaps easier to mount in a case for a 2P system vs. twin towers like the ND15 that are pretty big.

You can certainly go air-cooling.

 

The 12C/24T E5 2697 v2 is a great CPU too, but since it is clocked lower than the 10C 2687 is not really that much faster when rendering.

Judging just the numbers on paper, the single threaded performance should be around 9% slower with the 12C, while the "aggregate" threads x clock indicating multithreaded performance for the 12C will get you a roughly 4% faster results than the 10C option.

 

For all around performance the suggested CPU is more balanced, but that's subjective after one point.

 

So yes, if your workflow is heavy on the rendering side, maybe sacrificing some of the single threaded performance mostly important in the modeling side of things, will perhaps make sense for you.

[alexrecio]

The coolers are just for looks, and perhaps easier to mount in a case for a 2P system vs. twin towers like the ND15 that are pretty big.

You can certainly go air-cooling.

 

The 12C/24T E5 2697 v2 is a great CPU too, but since it is clocked lower than the 10C 2687 is not really that much faster when rendering.

Judging just the numbers on paper, the single threaded performance should be around 9% slower with the 12C, while the "aggregate" threads x clock indicating multithreaded performance for the 12C will get you a roughly 4% faster results than the 10C option.

 

For all around performance the suggested CPU is more balanced, but that's subjective after one point.

 

So yes, if your workflow is heavy on the rendering side, maybe sacrificing some of the single threaded performance mostly important in the modeling side of things, will perhaps make sense for you.

 

Agreed. We must put under scrutiny our own workflow and professional needs to find the right, as you said, "balanced" solution. I think that's the key. Thank four your pov on this one, duly noted. As a matter of fact, I´m currently searching for an upgrade to my clevo p570, and you might just have changed my mind from the 2697v2 to the 2690v2.

 

Cheers. Nice blog btw.

[Dimitris Tolios]

My intent with the blog but also most - if not all - the posts in CGarchitect is to provide food for thought.

Some need it more than others, but in any case - even if I sound/read being authoritative - I just want people to be intrigued enough in order to look up for options and make informed decisions.

 

PCs are very flexible and you can pick and choose between a lot of options.

The hardest part is balancing required performance vs. budget.

 

I wish all the decisions were as "crucial" as picking a great 10C Xeon vs. a great 12C Xeon =)

[ryannelson]

What i've gathered from reading posts about WS + RN is that you typically want more performance out of your node than your main workstation? I just put together a really awesome rig for my main WS and have been rendering with that recently. i7 5820k (oc'd to 4.1ghz) 32gb ddr4, gtx 970, all based on the advice of Dimitris (and others) great machine though.

 

Would it be advisable to go dual xeon for a render node or could I double up with another similar machine to my WS and add more as I need? This might be comparing apples to oranges though as the price discrepancy is quite large on that setup. That being said, the xeon might have a better ROI than a 2nd (3rd, 4th...) i7 because I wouldn't need to upgrade and it's less management than multiple nodes. This would be a pipeline project as I'm just freelancing part-time, but I'd love to see my render times go down a bit.

 

Does anyone have any experience with either of these paths, and what are the conclusions you've drawn?

[Dimitris Tolios]

You don't have to have a node or a farm that is faster than your main WS, but the fact is that the modeling and scene setup process is mostly single or lightly threaded, thus bounded to your machine's single core performance.

 

The faster that CPU is clocked is typically the better, and having more than 6C or even 4C fast CPU is rarely an issue if you will back it up with rendering nodes. Going for a 2P workstation that comes close to what a mere 5820K or 4790K does in single threaded performance, you are forced to invest too much money, and considering that utilizing 100% of that WS when rendering automatically kills your multitasking potential on that WS, makes fast 2P WS a so-so solution as far as ROI goes.

 

When rendering, a process that scales very well over multiple CPU cores, "typically" you want as much rendering power as you can get.

Money and space are the only real limitations to be honest, and between those you try to balance between micromanaging your nodes, cost/benefit between types of nodes & required licenses for software for each etc.

 

At this point, single socket s1150 nodes with fast i7 4Cs are hard to beat in value if we are talking a small to medium investment in nodes - say less than $6-7,000, estimating around $650~850 per node with 32GB DDR3 (diff between hardware only and hard+software costs which vary depending on platform used). 6C s2011-3 is good value also.

 

But if you were to start building a larger farm, where in case of the 1P cheap nodes you would have to micromanage a few dozens of, 2P 2x10C or 12C Xeons become more and more appealing, but we are talking nodes that would set you back $5K each or more, while being notably slower than what 6+ $800 nodes would be. For a SoHo studio, 1Ps will serve you ok.

 

For larger deployments, were your man-hours or those of your employees are billed dearly, having to micromanage dozens of server nodes can be "Dangerous" (albeit still of very good value when things go smooth).

Edited March 24, 2015 by dtolios

[ryannelson]

Thanks for the reply, this is really great info.

 

At work currently I have 10 nodes (older i7's, forget the exact chip...) and it's a huge pain in the butt to manage. I'm sure i'd be able to automate a lot more, but it's a huge time-sink to micro-manage them all. We're moving offices and I got them to buy me a dual e5-2650 v3 machine with 64gb of ram, I'm looking forward to testing out that beast! I might notice a change from the clock speed being a bit lower, but having all 40 threads jump in at once is going to be nice. Space and power consumption were big considerations for the render farm, which is why I went with the dual xeon, which will live in the server rack.

 

When it runs smoothly, the multiple nodes are wildly fast and efficient, but the management time is really something to consider. Especially because we have an IT company that manages our software and any changes we need to make has to go through them. I had to spread them out through the office too because if I had 5 on one breaker, it would kick within 5 minutes of rendering... my team didn't like that much.

 

From what you said, I'd probably go for i7 but maybe upgrade the RN to the 8c 5960x. I'd be saving cash on the GPU and HDD so I might as well put it into the CPU for my freelance "studio" at home. I also like the OC ability of the i7's.

 

I'll maybe come back in a few months after I've raised the money for the RN and see what you think of my build! I followed your 5820k build almost exactly and I'm really loving it, excellent value-friendly system.

 

Thanks again!

Edited March 24, 2015 by ryannelson