Ernest Burden III Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Well Chris What the hell did you say? I think this thread, as a whole, is in search of a PhD in psychology. It's interesting--none of us are particularly happy with our rendering products. We're all out looking for something better, anything better. !0,000 views and counting for a product in alpha that costs actual cash to even try and boasts render times that would get us all fired. We've all lost out collective minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Chris !0,000 views and counting for a product in alpha that costs actual cash to even try and boasts render times that would get us all fired. We've all lost out collective minds. ROTFLMAO!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Chris and Ernest, Thanks to both of you..... I respect your opinions.... You said exactly what I wanted to hear.... I thought I was the only one feeling this way... These guys at Maxwell want us (like Microsoft) to fund their research for an un-finished product that it sounds like very slow..... It is OK to search for improvements..... specially speed and quality.....! But the whole thread makes no sense.... This is like a panic attack....! Over 10,000 hits..... Chris, I understand your point, we want something better than what Viz has given us..... That is another group that should go to a court of their users.... They launch a new revision every 14 or 16 months and no serious improvements.... like the darn modeler..... which is horrible..... Most of us have a modeler, a renderer and then Viz or Max. I have SolidWORKS with the plugins about $7,000.00 plus a $1,200.00 per year maintenance fee. We have to upgrade something every year.... if not the computers, then the software. On top of it, we have to go and get the $50.00 books at Barnes and Nobles because Discreet doesn't even take their time to explain how their product works. As far as I am concerned, we don't need another renderer.... what we need is a good subsitute for Viz, the Modeler and the renderer.... all combined into the Holy Trinity Hi Hi....! My machine... for some reason... maybe Microsoft.... but this box looses the authorization from Discreet every so often.... I have to call them and show evidence that is a paid software.... Could Autodesk, instead of launching mediocre software, could they fix this license authorization issues... I would pay for such an "UPGRADE".....! Could they do a software that doesn't crash in the middle of my work.....! Could they write a good manual...? Could they put support techs on the phone that know more than me.... (That should be easy)....!!! A few days ago I added how much I have spent in computers and software and my cost of upgrading technology.... It is obscene....! Adding insult over injury, You know how many of those $50.00 books I have, starting from 18 years ago.... By the way all these books have a tendency to be re-cycled... How many classes I have attended.....! In SolidWORKS along I have gone three times to their Basic, Middle and Advance level.... at $1,200.00 a seminar. I know I could use some brain power.... Hi Hi There is that other thread of where is architecture visualization going....! I don't know where is it going.... One thing I know..... I work in the construction industry of Hospitals, including the manufacturing of the systems going inside the hospital..... The visualization skills are important..... But it is a highly unpaid discipline..... Not very well understood by the clients..... not even understood by too many architects..... The principals in the architectural firms want fast production so they can turn in invoices while they go along.... While we are busy trying to fix the slow softwares with expensive bugs passed along to us..... The contractors are too busy making 40 cents on the dollar.... I have seen a lot of 120 million dollar projects..... One of my contractors... a street smart man not very intelligent, recently invited me to go on the new 4 million dollar yatch he bought out of the last project! While I am trying to upgrade computers....! One corner the contractors.... on the other corner the health insurance executives making lots of money, then in the middle the architects and consultants and then Visualization guys..... With bad software.... If these software people want to come out with more products.... Proof them....!!!! I don't know if it is my age..... but this group should not be so eager to jump on the band wagon and keep accepting low quality unfinished products.... If we stop buying the upgrades they will get the message... What was so great about Viz 2005..... A year later we are heading to the next Viz and I am sure there is a group of super anxious guys ready to upgrade computers and softwares.... I am sure there is a group of guys already writing the next $50.00 book for sale at your nearest bookstore.... The cycle keeps going... I can't believe the anxiety caused by Maxwell.... We are in the wrong business, we should be doing software....!!!! Ernest.... you are right... we should start a new thread headed by a PhD Psychology..... the name for the thread.... RENDERING HYSTERIA. Our group is very interesting.... they spend thousands of dollars and hours to produce some outstanding images to be published in our forum..... Our typical member is an above normal individual.... not only he or her masters the pixel manipulations, on top of it they are computer wizards..... I bet we don't have many MBA's on this group.....! We should start another thread.... How to make money with our investment..... Another one..... How to Deal with your Friendly Software Manufacturer......! I am not a pessimist.... I have spent 5 days just trying to do an image of a product..... This is non-productive....... My partner, a smart business man super allergic to computers..... Well it took him 3 minutes to tell our production foreman to assemble the product..... He assembled it in about one hour..... I have been at it since Friday...... I just finished.... Yes my image looks better.... There is no question about it.... However, this client has told me before, he is afraid of my pictures because I could make anything look real.... He prefers the real product sample.... CG Architect should charge them for publicity......! 10,000 hits and counting.... A dollar a hit....... Take a small portion of that money to help Jeff start a budget for scientific research on Illumination....... HOW TO DESIGN GOOD PRODUCTS another small budget for the PhD Psycologist. The challenge of conquering mediocre products is addictive... I am sure tomorrow I will start on another project......! Hi Hi Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunstraum.tv Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 "The only difference between men and boys is the size and cost of their toys." ....i think that lead us to the real truth ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Marc Kaustram.tv I agree.... lets make sure the big guns are really big guns.... One question.... I saw your site and it looks very good. What rendering software did you use....? The scene with the car looks very good. What program do use for modeling Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Aranguren Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Look, let's say you just bought a car, and this car is the best "yet", you might be happy with your car, 'till there's a better one, or you have enough money to change it... the thing here is that this time we happen to know how to drive, and how the car works, if you really know the limitations of your render engine, these are your limitations, my free drawing professor at the university told me that "the canvas, doesn't make the artist", but I wonder, what if we put together a good artist and good tools??? can the artist tell the brush factory how to make the best one? well I think we really are getting psycological here, but it's good to talk to you people... we should meet one day in a hawaiian resort and drink together, what could possibly come out of that bunch of drunk CG Artists? maybe something good ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 we should meet one day in a hawaiian resort and drink together, what could possibly come out of that bunch of drunk CG Artists? maybe something good ;-) A large bar tab and a lot of 'forgotten wallets'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Aranguren Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ahhh forgot to tell you... I spoke to Paul Debevec and he said this... "Arnold is going strong and is being used in several projects now, including ours. Marcos is at marcosss@3dluvr.com . Best regards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Aranguren Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 A large bar tab and a lot of 'forgotten wallets'? That's the least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Chris What the hell did you say? I think this thread, as a whole, is in search of a PhD in psychology. It's interesting--none of us are particularly happy with our rendering products. We're all out looking for something better, anything better. !0,000 views and counting for a product in alpha that costs actual cash to even try and boasts render times that would get us all fired. We've all lost out collective minds. Very funny Ernest... I think you know how I feel... I agree with you about the opinion, but hey, he asked us for ours... so I offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ernest and Chris, I incredibly confused.... Tomorrow I am going to get VRay.... that way I get out of doubts..... Hi Hi Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Nelson Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ok Elliot, what the heck does "hi hi" mean anyways?? Please enlighten us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ok Elliot, what the heck does "hi hi" mean anyways?? Please enlighten us! LOL, I think he means "hehehehe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Jeff, Thanks for the translation..... I laugh in Spanish my native language from Puerto Rico, Hi Hi Hi.... I mean He He He....... I guess in Mexico Ji Ji Ja Ja Jo Jo...... My wife is a 100% Southern American from Atlanta, Georgia..... She is an English teacher with advanced degree..... You dont have an idea of how she critics my Hi Hi Hi.... We have all kind of discusions about pronunciation....! I spend 30% of my time in Montreal, Canada...... After 34 years in the US an finally thinking I was learning English.... I find myself trying to learn French.... Jeff, how do say it in French..... Hi Hi Hi, He He He, Ji Ji Jo Jo....! Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 He haw he haw he haw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Nelson Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 OH! HA HA!....Thanks for solving the mystery. I've seen "hi hi" so many times before I was beginning to wonder if it meant something special that I should know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 OH! HA HA!....I've seen "hi hi" so many times before I was beginning to wonder if it meant something special that I should know about. Seasonally adjusted to Ho Ho Ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Guys, This thing of translations is a complex business. I worked for a British Company for 18 years.... It took me a long time to learn their English... They used to critize my "Colonial English". When I was learning to fly.... My instructor on the T37 used to tell me.... aim at the end of the runway and shortly before the treshold start flaring out.... After many practices, I ran out of the time they would give a 19 year old student... is either land or you are out..... Well I almost got kicked out until somebody decided to question me about my weird way of handling the aircraft.... This old colonel flew with me and asked me to say everything to him as I was doing it.... Of course he knew Spanish.... After coming back from the practice areas and where I had no problems with the aerobatic manuevers, he just couldn't understand why I was not aiming right..... Under pressure I screamed and told him.... Sir, my instructor may be senior to me, but there is no way I can aim at the "END" of the runway and still land.... In English both "ENDS" of the runway are called the end.... In Spanish there is a begining and an end of the runway..... Of course the "OLD" Colonel told just do what you are doing but aim at the begining. It was OK from there on. This is similar to Hi Hi Hi, Ja Ja Ja, He He He..... Or as Ernest says "Seasonably adjusted to Ho Ho Ho" Elliot Hi Hi Hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbid Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Unhappy with your comment, I'm afraid. Wrong place to do that. 1) Arch stuff is so boring you actually took the time to register, read and post a comment on our "boring" arch stuff forum. 2) Each one to each's own. If you can make interiors in no time, good for you. But next time, save this kind of comment to yourself, alright? 1) you made the stupid comment about user who want to render "monster" with maxwell. i don´t see what wrong with rendering chars or "monsters". as many of you arch viz people admit, doing realistic organic modelling needs a bit more then doing stairs, walls, ceilings and putting a few RPC people in a scene. 2) same to you. next time you better save your comments to yourself. 3) i have registered here because im interested in maxwell, im not interested in this website or arch viz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbid Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Chars? What the hell is that supposed to mean? I take it you mean characters(?) It's not what we do! Did you miss Kunstraum's post above. His modelling and rendering would compete with anything in the CG industry, as would the work of many here. Stick to CGTalk if you think archi work is boring. No-one else here does. you guys have a very biased view. i have quoted to what i have reply. sure, nobody likes it when he gets his noses rubbed in his own shit. when someone calls all character modellers "hecks who want to render monsters and make unprofessionel comments" then i feel free to bait back. maybe he has not thought about what he wrote, that is quiet common these days. but i don´t see what makes ARCH VIZ people more professionell then character modellers. try to get a job in the movie business without the ability to do organic models, good sub-d experience. making models that consist to 70% of 90° angles is not what i call a modelling challenge. please see my response in the correct light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 1) you made the stupid comment about user who want to render "monster" with maxwell. i don´t see what wrong with rendering chars or "monsters". Actually it was me who made the "stupid" comment and it was in reference to the fact that there are alot more non-professionals that make monsters becuase it what they see on TV than people who do architectural visualizations who are almost all professionals in the industry. You seem hell bent on just trolling here on the forums rather than contributing anything meaningful to this thread, so I'd tread lightly if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 1) you made the stupid comment about user who want to render "monster" with maxwell. i don´t see what wrong with rendering chars or "monsters". as many of you arch viz people admit, doing realistic organic modelling needs a bit more then doing stairs, walls, ceilings and putting a few RPC people in a scene. 2) same to you. next time you better save your comments to yourself. 3) i have registered here because im interested in maxwell, im not interested in this website or arch viz. Dude, get real. If you're not interested in what we do here, then don't even bother posting. If you're not interested in arch viz or our website, then don't even come. Seems to me that you have no idea of what arch viz is really about. I'm not starting a "my job is better than yours" kind of discussion, but I have to say once again: keep your comments to yourself. If you're not an arch viz pro, if you're here just cuz you're some curious individual, don't insult us with this kind of attitude. If you're interested only in Maxwell, go to www.maxwell.com. THAT'S the place for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Aranguren Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Look what I've found at richard rosenman's site: Global Illumination Renderers Renderer Company Website Renderman Pixar renderman.pixar.com Brazil R/S, RIO Splutterfish http://www.splutterfish.com VRay, VRay Free Chaotic Dimension http://www.vrayrender.com Raymax Absolute Software GmbH http://www.raymax.com Mental Ray Mental Images http://www.mentalimages.com FinalRender Cebas Computer GmbH http://www.finalrender.com Entropy (Bought by NVidia) Exluna film.nvidia.com/page/home Arnold Marcos Fajardo http://www.3dluvr.com/marcosss Lightscape Autodesk http://www.lightscape.com 3dsmax Discreet http://www.discreet.com Lightwave 3D Newtek http://www.newtek.com Turtle Illuminate Labs http://www.illuminatelabs.com Lucille Syoyo Fujita lucille.sourceforge.net RenderBitch Rendered Realities http://www.renderbitch.com Jackie David Rigel http://www.jackie3d.org Sunflow Christopher Kulla sunflow.sourceforge.net YafRay Alejandro Conty Estevez http://www.yafray.org Radiance University of California radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/HOME.html WinOSi Michael Granz http://www.winosi.onlinehome.de Luminaire Brendan Duncan sourceforge.net/projects/maxshade Carrara Eovia http://www.eovia.com/carrara/product_intro_car3.jsp Mystique John van der Burg http://www.mysticgd.com/projects/mystique/mystique.htm Pixie Okan Arikan sourceforge.net/projects/pixie Lefty Alex Boswell wifl.at.org/~fusion/lefty.php Rhea Arash Keshmirian graphics.ucsd.edu/~arash/rhea Kilauea Square USA http://www.seanet.com/~myandper/gallery.htm 3Delight 3Delight http://www.3delight.com ArtiShock ArtyShock http://www.artyshock.net/main/index_e.php JaTrac Miloslaw Smyk wfmh.org.pl/thorgal/jatrac/overview.html AIR Sitex Graphics http://www.sitexgraphics.com/html/air.html Phos jpanta@softlab.ntua.gr users.ntua.gr/jpanta/Phos Redqueen Rendering Tool Teamredqueen http://www.teamredqueen.com Parthenon toshiya@bee-www.com http://www.bee-www.com/parthenon/index.htm Dali Henrik Wann Jensen graphics.stanford.edu/~henrik/images POV-Ray POV-Team http://www.povray.org Kray Grzegorz Tanski http://www.kray.prv.pl Pane Kevin M. Beason http://www.csit.fsu.edu/~beason/pane Virtualight Stephane Marty http://www.3dvirtualight.com RenderPark RenderPark Team http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/cwis/research/graphics/RENDERPARK Insight Integra http://www.integra.co.jp/insight Toxic François Beaune toxicengine.sourceforge.net R.I.S.E. Aravind Krishnaswamy rise.sourceforge.net BusyRay busy[at]busyray.com http://www.busyray.com Maxwell Next Limit Technologies http://www.maxwellrender.com MetropoLight Stephane Marty http://www.3dvirtualight.com/mlt/ Lightstudio RAD Renderer Die Lichtplaner http://www.lichtplaner.com/ messiah:studio pmG http://www.projectmessiah.com/x2/messiahstudio.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jucaro Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Originally Posted by morbid maybe he has not thought about what he wrote, that is quiet common these days. Then you should have done that too before you first posted your trash comments here. but i don´t see what makes ARCH VIZ people more professionell then character modellers. More professional than you might be able to think or comprehend. We ARCH VIZ people are the ones making the environments for your 'characters' and 'monsters'. A character or monster model would be so boring without its environment. But thats beside the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 as many of you arch viz people admit, doing realistic organic modelling needs a bit more then doing stairs, walls, ceilings and putting a few RPC people in a scene. I'd rather not contribute, but I would comment as someone that has done both. Modeling and lighting of CG characters and Environments are both challenging and very different. Often those that are good at one are not as good at others. There is no way you can say that one is better at one then the other. There is a reason that people get hired as soft body modelers and hard body modelers. Lighting gets even more complex. As far as professionalism is concerned, a large majority of the archviz people have come from architectural training, many of which has a professional degree. A professional degree can be achieved in Law, Architecture, Accounting, Medicine, and Engeneering. So in essence, they are professionals. A majority of those that do character modeling that you see, while very good at doing what they do, and being good artist, have no upper education degree (yet). A lot of them are straight out of high school, some have technical degrees, some have gone to art school, but there is generally little chance that they have a professional degree. Even a PhD in Computer science or an MFA is not a professional degree. Boy did we go off track on this one huh? ho ho ho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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