Curious Post on Rhino Newsgroup

[buffos]

it was not a holiday yesterday, and it will not be one on Monday.

But we wont get any version anyway.

Next week means for NL about 30 days.

[Adehus]

If the core engine was ready, then the project could finish easily.

 

The core is the only thing... everything else is window dressing. Sadly, the core has been going backwards ever since the beta was released... and NL has refused to say anything substantial about it. This is not good.

[CALCULMENTOR]

Si Vous Ne Trouvez Plus Rien, Chercher Autre Chose.

 

If You Do Not Find Anything Any More, Seek Another Thing.

 

What The Hell Are You Doing All Day Long?

[Devin Johnston]

I'm just sick.....

 

I think it's time we put Ernest's and Buffo's plan into action, create a petition demanding disclosure from NL to their customer base or investors which ever you prefer. I think the time has come to knock down this wall of deception that NL has put up, we've been patient enough and given them way more time than they deserve. It's time we find out just how bad the situation is, whether or not NL has a viable technology and if they do what the actual time frame is for it's completion.

[Ernest Burden III]

I think it's time we put Ernest's and Buffo's plan into action

 

I'm going to write up the concepts...soon as I can (now I'm in NL mode!). The truth is this angst has taken up too much of my all-too-fleeting attention-deficited attention.

 

I have a pretty clear idea of how to write it all up.

[CALCULMENTOR]

MAXER, IS IT (humain)RIGHT, that u are killling people in huston, texas, 2006?

 

this explain that

[Devin Johnston]

What?

[CALCULMENTOR]

Hardt and Negri’s theory of empire has been overtaken by events. The theory works well for the Clinton years, when the American state did indeed seem more or less committed to vectoralization, to undermining its own envelop in the interests of the vectoral class. The Bush jr years are far more contradictory. Bush is currently the leading anti-globalization campaigner in the United States -if a very selective one. His breach of the spirit, and the letter of the WTO to protect the steel industry is a tactical switch from the politics of the vector to the politics of the envelope. As such it is not uncommon -Japan, the EU and the US constantly switch from one to the other, under pressure from different alliances of class forces.

bUT WE ARE IN EUROPE MAN

IDON'T WRITING ENGLISH BUT I UNDERSTAND IT AS WELL......

HUDGE&CHEERS

[Devin Johnston]

CALCULMENTOR I have no idea what you are talking about, it sounds like you have some kind of problem with America but I'm not sure. I don't understand how this is relevant to the topic of this thread or Maxwell in general.

[Ernest Burden III]

What?

 

It's late in France.

[bricklyne]

Hardt and Negri’s theory of empire has been overtaken by events. The theory works well for the Clinton years, when the American state did indeed seem more or less committed to vectoralization, to undermining its own envelop in the interests of the vectoral class. The Bush jr years are far more contradictory. Bush is currently the leading anti-globalization campaigner in the United States -if a very selective one. His breach of the spirit, and the letter of the WTO to protect the steel industry is a tactical switch from the politics of the vector to the politics of the envelope. As such it is not uncommon -Japan, the EU and the US constantly switch from one to the other, under pressure from different alliances of class forces.

bUT WE ARE IN EUROPE MAN

IDON'T WRITING ENGLISH BUT I UNDERSTAND IT AS WELL......

HUDGE&CHEERS

 

To quote Devin:

 

"What?"

 

 

 

Friendly Suggestion : Why not write what you intend to say in French, and perhaps one of the native French speaking members of the Forum, fluent enough in English can do a reasonable enough translation, that the rest of us can understand? I have a sneaking suspicion that your attempt above loses quite a bit in translation, and may be off-topic, in any case.

[noseman]

mersier CALCULMENTOR, NL is not a CIA branch, and the so called "core" is a rendering sw core, not a nuclear core.

 

BTW I don't like jr or CIA or NSA or FBI either.. but that's another story!

[CALCULMENTOR]

OK CLARENCE

que se passe t il?

j'ai suivi le developpement de maxwell depuis un bon moment.

j'ai un peu arreté.

je reviens sur les forums il y a 1mois et questceque je vois?

des gens aigris, qui soutiennent le developpement d'un logiciel tres prometeur, et qui ayant payé, exigent des delais de livraisons.

les delais, delay, sont le mal du siecle.

je ne suis pas anti americain, j'adore les hamburgers.

ou en etes vous avec le sdk (mpeg4 windows>divx).

moi je suis physicien, designer et architecte, je sais programmer mais pas coder: j'aiderai bien NL mais je ne peut pas, donc j'attends patient.

mieux, pourquoi ne travaillez vous pas ensemble ernest maxer, toi et quelque autre sur des projets, plutot que mettre votre mauvaise humeur sur ce forum.

si vous voulez on bosse ensemble

la N-team:)

[Fran]

Nicolas wins for most curious post on CGArchitect (today).

 

I don't think there's any call for me to flex my Mod Squad muscle. I have my Go-Go boots off for the weekend.

[AdamT]

This seems to me the most revealing post:

 

"Subject: Re: Flamingo vs Maxwell

Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:57:12 -0500

From: "Thomas Anag."

Newsgroups: rhino

 

At the moment Maxwell is in a transition stage and it is having a hiccup

... nothing seems to work right.

 

Just letting you know (development is not always hunky-dory). So, the

grass is not green enough at the Maxwell side of the fence right now."

 

So yeah, I'd say darth fanboy's optimism may be a tad overstated. I'd also say it's quite likely that TA has broken his NDA, but obviously it depends on the specific wording.

 

What a mess.

[ShaunDon]

It's a good point, Nicolas, but I have no idea how that relates to your previous posts on Mr. Bush, the WTO, and steel tarrifs. *grin*

 

He's basically taking issue with Maxer's negativity toward NextLimit saying that it's not going to help get any of us a working piece of software, which is what we all want. It's a dilemma, Nicolas. Nobody here wants to torpedo NextLimit, though it sounds like some are getting close. I guess you're advocating that everyone who bought licenses pay the price for buying unwritten software and simply wait patiently for it to be delivered? I feel like there's been a lot of patience for most of 2005...

 

Shaun

[Ernest Burden III]

I'd also say it's quite likely that TA has broken his NDA, but obviously it depends on the specific wording.

 

Wouldn't a NDA just bar disclosing features and functions? He's not doing that, he's saying 'whatever was expected isn't working, buy in with caution'.

 

I don't think he enjoyed getting beaten up in public for (his point of view) decisions that were out of his control. I only went after him for his mod. work, but he seemed to take it all very personally. NL's behaviour is not his fault, though his behaviour is. Sounds like it has just gotten to him. We could all use a break.

[Adehus]

This (from ThomAn's post on the Rhino forums) wasn't terribly encouraging either:

 

"However, it is uncertain how long the company will last with the current marketing style or for how long the developers can keep this schedule, this pace, and the marketing stresses they are being subjected to before quiting or damaging their health."

 

By all accounts these guys are working their butts off trying to get Maxwell out, but are they just chipping away at a wall they have no hope of breaking through? The problems with the core make me think it might be so. After all, the MLT algorithm has been public knowledge since at least '97, and alot of very smart people have decided that it wasn't worth pursuing.

[AdamT]

NDAs can be very very restrictive--even to the extent of prohibiting one from stating that he or she is under NDA. They can prohibit any comment about the development process as well as developments within the process. I've seen quite a few over the years and most include these provisions.

 

Regarding TA, I agree that he was out of line with respect to the forum, but I also feel bad for him with respect to his efforts to rehabilitate NL--which seems to be utterly lacking in common sense.

 

These apparently crazy working hours are another indication of that. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that you can't sustain that kind of effort over the long haul, and yet they are clearly dealing with a long-haul problem. And, it's that much worse because they're trying to solve high-level math problems. Sleep deprivation alone might make that impossible. I can't think how many times I've stayed up late trying to solve a really complex problem, only to find in the morning that the answer was so *obvious.*

[AdamT]

Oh yeah, forgot to say -- Hi Whiskey! Glad to see you here.

[buffos]

As i said before.

They can simply refund everyone and work at their own pace.

When you accept money for something and promise something you should be ready to take responsibility. Otherwise it is like you are selling thin air and that is not legal.

 

NL will never tell the truth unless we act together and demand it.

Victor 10 days before October release, he said we are finetuning the last details. For Gods shake. What was he thinking when he said that?

That a magic hand will solve his problems?

 

Lies lies lies and to cover those, lies and lies and even more lies.

 

Ofcourse he is facing financial disaster. But i cannot pitty him. Noone force him to enter such a hurricane.

 

 

I really can understand the hard position, but i cannot sympathise.

[bricklyne]

OK CLARENCE

que se passe t il?

j'ai suivi le developpement de maxwell depuis un bon moment.

j'ai un peu arreté.

je reviens sur les forums il y a 1mois et questceque je vois?

des gens aigris, qui soutiennent le developpement d'un logiciel tres prometeur, et qui ayant payé, exigent des delais de livraisons.

les delais, delay, sont le mal du siecle.

je ne suis pas anti americain, j'adore les hamburgers.

ou en etes vous avec le sdk (mpeg4 windows>divx).

moi je suis physicien, designer et architecte, je sais programmer mais pas coder: j'aiderai bien NL mais je ne peut pas, donc j'attends patient.

mieux, pourquoi ne travaillez vous pas ensemble ernest maxer, toi et quelque autre sur des projets, plutot que mettre votre mauvaise humeur sur ce forum.

si vous voulez on bosse ensemble

la N-team:)

 

 

Ok my French is not as good as it should be ( shameful of me, I know), but my best translation is this, and if any other Native French speakers find any discrepancies feel free to correct me. (parantheses are my closest English alternatives for maore clarity as well as a few filling in the blanks):

 

Translation:

 

"What's going on?

I've followed the Maxwell development for a while, and stopped (following? the dev.) for a little while.

I've been back on the Forums (NL) for about 1 month and what do I see?

Sour (bitter/resentful) people who supported the development of a promoted software, and having paid, demanding delivery.

I'm not anti-American. I love hamburgers.

Where are you on the sdk (mpeg4 windows>divx) (??)

I'm a physicist, designer and architect, I'm a programmer, but I don't code:

I would like to help NL but I can't, therefore I patiently await.

 

Even better why don't you work together; Ernest, Maxer you and a few others on projects instead of putting a "bad mood" on this forum?

 

If you want to bump together (???) the N-team."

 

 

That's the best I could do on my own; and to my best understanding, the gist of it is;

 

'why constantly complain about the delays, when there's nothing you, or anyone else can do about it at this time?'

[Devin Johnston]

OK CLARENCE

que se passe t il?

j'ai suivi le developpement de maxwell depuis un bon moment.

j'ai un peu arreté.

je reviens sur les forums il y a 1mois et questceque je vois?

des gens aigris, qui soutiennent le developpement d'un logiciel tres prometeur, et qui ayant payé, exigent des delais de livraisons.

les delais, delay, sont le mal du siecle.

je ne suis pas anti americain, j'adore les hamburgers.

ou en etes vous avec le sdk (mpeg4 windows>divx).

moi je suis physicien, designer et architecte, je sais programmer mais pas coder: j'aiderai bien NL mais je ne peut pas, donc j'attends patient.

mieux, pourquoi ne travaillez vous pas ensemble ernest maxer, toi et quelque autre sur des projets, plutot que mettre votre mauvaise humeur sur ce forum.

si vous voulez on bosse ensemble

la N-team:)

Translation:

what does it occur?

I followed the development of Maxwell since a good moment.

I arreté a little.

I return on the forums there is 1mois and questceque I see?

turned sour people, who support the development of a software very prometor, and which having paid, require delivery periods.

deadlines, delay, are the evil of the century.

I am not anti americain, I adore hamburgers.

or in etes you with the sdk (mpeg4 windows>divx).

me I am a physicist, designer and architect, I can program but not code: I will help NL well but I cannot, thus I wait patient.

better, why do not work not together ernest maxer, you and some other on projects, rather than to put your bad mood on this forum.

si vous voulez on bosse ensemble

I ran the text through a translator so it's not perfect. I think he is saying that were wasting out time complaining about NL and we should just wait patiently until Maxwell is released. All of that makes since if you don't understand what has transpired over the last year.

When we all purchased Maxwell we were given a specific list of features that would be included in the final program. We were also lead into believing that the full version of Maxwell was going to be released some time in July of 05. We were also told that we would be given constant updates to the latest software and we would be kept informed on the development process. At some point early in the year there was even a roadmap for development that was eventually removed because they realized they were in trouble and didn't want the user base to know how bad things really were.

The reason I and many others are upset and complaining is because we paid money to NL for a specific product to be delivered at a specific time which was determined by NL it's self. The product wasn't delivered, the features we were originally sold may not be implemented, and we were kept in the dark about the real problems for more than half a year. If you are content to give a company your money and expect nothing for it then that is your business, I however made a purchase in good faith for a specific product with specific functions and I want to make sure I get what I paid for. I don’t feel sorry for NL because they had the opportunity to come clean when this thing first started and they didn’t. They even continued to sell Maxwell on their web site claming the full release was only days away even after it was apparent Maxwell was far from ready. This doesn’t seem like the actions of an honest company to me.

[whiskey]

why do you always get that date wrong..maxwell was promised to be released march 15 2005..i bought in january and thought they're honest

[bricklyne]

I ran the text through a translator so it's not perfect. I think he is saying that were wasting out time complaining about NL and we should just wait patiently until Maxwell is released. All of that makes since if you don't understand what has transpired over the last year.

When we all purchased Maxwell we were given a specific list of features that would be included in the final program. We were also lead into believing that the full version of Maxwell was going to be released some time in July of 05. We were also told that we would be given constant updates to the latest software and we would be kept informed on the development process. At some point early in the year there was even a roadmap for development that was eventually removed because they realized they were in trouble and didn't want the user base to know how bad things really were.

The reason I and many others are upset and complaining is because we paid money to NL for a specific product to be delivered at a specific time which was determined by NL it's self. The product wasn't delivered, the features we were originally sold may not be implemented, and we were kept in the dark about the real problems for more than half a year. If you are content to give a company your money and expect nothing for it then that is your business, I however made a purchase in good faith for a specific product with specific functions and I want to make sure I get what I paid for. I don’t feel sorry for NL because they had the opportunity to come clean when this thing first started and they didn’t. They even continued to sell Maxwell on their web site claming the full release was only days away even after it was apparent Maxwell was far from ready. This doesn’t seem like the actions of an honest company to me.

 

 

My own personal comment ( coming out of translator mode: and having somewhat gotten Nicholas' perpective) would be that whereas Nicholas does make a valid point regarding the futility of perpetual complaints without any proactive support to back it up, the fact that he admitted having been away for a while (I'm not sure how long) would somehow diminish his capacity to understand or appreciate the frustration of the people who are complaining and who for all intents and purposes have followed the development right through, since the Alpha release way back last year. The same would apply for a lot of the Johnny-come-lately fanboys over at the NL forums.

 

The issue that most people have with the curent status is not so much the delays, but the record and catalog of what can only be interpreted as lies, and dishonesty from NL's part regarding the true state of the development. The fact that they refuse to countenance the possibilty for refunds for frustrated customers, as well as their rather unfortunate business-decorum within the realm of client support (i.e giving people the silent treatment for months at their own forums, compounded by crude and boorish Moderator behaviour) don't help neither.

 

And right now, a lack of a clear roadmap or planned schedule seemingly gives them leeway or a license to continue delaying the project and fleecing prospective newcomers with the half-price "bargain" while they pursue an insolvable solution to their current impasse.