Devin Johnston Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 It's a sticky situation. Bail out now and try to recover our money via bank card action and probably precipitate MW's demise? Or wait and see if things work out on the very real chance that they won't and we are closed out of any recompense. I have a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 In the alternative--probably only interesting to some of us--how about a deal to trade in our M~R licenses for Realflow licenses. At this point I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Realflow's starting to look quite outdated and if you look around on the web you can find a good deal of complaint's about it (including complaints about NL so its nothing new, really). I would give NL a few months on this, at least until v1.0 comes out (whatever that will entail). Since they've introduced the new material system (probably during fall 05) not alot of time has passed, so they really need alot more time in order to give it a good shot at getting it working. I'm not rich ( ) but the investment for the beta really wasn't too much. Now, if i was silly enough to have purchased 30+ licenses, that would be another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imanobody Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Just a word of warning. Whether there is merit to do this or not, slander law assumes the person being slandered is innocent until proven otherwise. And setting up a site like this is most certainly ground for a slander suit. In other words, even though you might be right and could win a case in court, be prepared to defend and pay for your time in court to prove it. In Canada, I have been told a 2 week trial in the Court of Queens Bench will run anywhere from $40,000-$60,000 in legal fees. You're 100% true, but there are a few things that need to be taken into account. 1: very few companies go after these websites and the ones that do are usually only the really big ones that have the financies to do a legal battle. 2: Since NL claims to be too busy writing code and taking holidays to talk to their customers, they "should" be too busy to file lawsuits. 3:NL is in Spain. As long as the person, or people, doing the site are in a different country, that would pose a really big problem for them. Just as people here can't do anything to NL because they are in a different country, they too will find it really hard to go to a different country just to file a law suite, not to mention all the extra expenses that they would face. And, correct me if I'm wrong, is it not true that you can't sue people from another country. they would have to find a lawyer in that country and would have to show up for the trail. I think it would be just too expensive for them being how small they are. I wish we had a law in the US, like in a few other countries, were the losser has to pay the winners legal expenses. 4: And I've already said this once before; they probably don't have the money. I think if slander cases were that easy easybackgroundcheck.com would've sued a long time ago. Anyone that did this, of course, would need to make sure that they stayed totally factual and didn't go into bashing NL. Just give dates and what happened, but don't use word like - ahole, bsterds, or JkOfs. IMHOP NL are crooks and artists need to be warned of them before they get sucked into this scam. I doubt anyone will get their money back from the bank because, I pretty sure, you only have 90 days to dispute a charge to a CC or Bank. Clark Howard is the person you really need to ask about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 If it's 90 days, then I need to either fish or cut bait soon. I made my second purchase on Oct. 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 IMHOP NL are crooks and artists need to be warned of them before they get sucked into this scam. I doubt anyone will get their money back from the bank because, I pretty sure, you only have 90 days to dispute a charge to a CC or Bank. I am not sure that the people of NextLimit are crooks. They may be, but I am not convinced yet. I want to believe that they are really trying to make some magic for the CG field, and have gotten stuck in their own mud. The lies suggest otherwise, but sometimes a cornered animal acts in a way they wouldn't otherwise. I think we can solve the riddle, however. The idea I'm pushing of forcing a new policy upon NL that sets out some requirements from the investors should settle things. Either it'll work, or they'll dig in their heels and enough of their customes will 'cut bait' and the whole affair will come to an end. I have to write up my ideas, get some input from you good folks, and therein lies the danger--waiting for me to get something done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imanobody Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 "crooks" was probably the wrong word to use, but they surely are lacking in business ethics. I believe, like all of you, that they honestly started out believing that they could pull this off. The only problem I have with them is that they should've refunded everyone when they found out that they couldn't do it. If this was any other company, that wasn't a software company, they would be out of business or have a million law suites on their hands. I got a letter from Netflix giving me a free month of service because of a petty thing they were doing... and I haven't had service with them for over a year! But NL can walk all over their customers and not only is it considered OK, it's considered the customer's own fault because they were in the way! Why am I so angry about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffos Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I agree with Ernest. By the way its not hard to get them. I have search it through EU and its easy. The european union is very strick on those topics. If we make a mass complain then things would be even easier. But first i agree with Ernest. We must force NL to play with our comminication rules. And those simply melt down to a simple rule. Tell the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Ernest, I don't think we qualify as "investors" even though we have invested our money in Maxwell. We are customers, and there is a difference. If we were "shareholders" then NL's actions and their relationship with us would be regulated in an entirely different way. An investor purchases shares in a company in the hopes that he will see profitable ($) returns on his investment, not a finished product. People who invest in Pepsi don't expect to get their dividends in soda. Customers have the right to expect a product for their money that is equal to what was advertised. If after a certain amount of time, a product is not delivered as promised, the customer has a legitimate complaint. For example, I received a Newsletter from NL on Oct. 5, the "History in the making!" one, where I was told it was my last chance to get Maxwell at the preorder price and that M~R 1.0 was finally being released "this month". So I bought another license. And look! It's January and V1.0 is nowhere in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 NL does have offices, as mentioned before (and on their website) in Washington, USA. Maybe theis makes them accountable under US law? As concerns the website, site such as "google watch" and the likes (so many watch sites) manage to communicate their points in a factual way without getting into the slander territory, so i think as long as they are carefully worded and stick to the facts they should not be threatened by law. Maxwell-watch.org? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Just to point out: truth is a compete defense to slander. If you just put up a webpage with the facts it would be damning enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted January 7, 2006 Administrators Share Posted January 7, 2006 Just to point out: truth is a compete defense to slander. If you just put up a webpage with the facts it would be damning enough. Yes but it does not stop someone from taking you to court anyway. Depends if the company or person has more money than brains or if their ego wins out over rational thought. My earlier post was really in response to maxwellsucks.com or something along those lines. maxwell-watch.com if done carefully would probably be a much safer route. Not that I am personally condoning either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Ernest, I don't think we qualify as "investors" even though we have invested our money in Maxwell. We are customers, and there is a difference. Customers without a product, like a cowboy without a horse. Or a race driver without a car, or snow without white. You are right, of course. I was speaking metaphorically. I've been using the term 'investor' to encourage a mindset of power rather than just as a consumer with a gripe. Recently we needed to replace an aged refrigerator, bought a GE. It was a new model and we had to wait a month for a white one. It came cracked on the inside, GE sent another one, also cracked (more cracked) and finally a third which isn't cracked. Then they wrote to us saying they had a crack problem (make your own joke) and extended our waranty by two years. We were buyers with a problem. That's why calling us 'customers' of NextLimit defies the typical definition of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeFerret Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I'm making good on my promise of going to the bank if they didn't change their ways in the new year. No reason to point out why I'm doing this, that's obvious. I'm a reasonable person, and would have stayed if there was honest communication with the customers. I'll post if I'm successful or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imanobody Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 My earlier post was really in response to maxwellsucks.com or something along those lines. maxwell-watch.com if done carefully would probably be a much safer route. Not that I am personally condoning either. Yea, I would have to say that your right about that; maxwell-watch.com would sound much better. It's definitely better then maxwelleatmycrustyunderwear.com:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Pende Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Autodesk is coming! :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 sablastan! Breeeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivoli Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 well, it looks like something happened, thomas is no longer listed as a moderator over at the maxwell board. ernest, do you have anything to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 well, it looks like something happened, thomas is no longer listed as a moderator over at the maxwell board. ernest, do you have anything to do with it? A user who isn't active here caught wind of it: http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10690&start=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PopArt Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I hope the guy left out of his own free will, because if nl stripped him of his moderator status because of what he said on the rhino forums, it says alot about them (like, they arent very nice or undertanding, to say the least). Maybe he made a mistake, but mistakes can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivoli Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I hope the guy left out of his own free will yes, so do i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I hope the guy left out of his own free will, ........... Actually that would be even more disturbing, considering the fact that he (supposedly) knows more about what's going, than any of us non-mods and non-developers. Can you imagine what would make an insider willingly want to detach themselves and get as far away as possible from a project such as this? It might actually be that bad..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Actually that would be even more disturbing, considering the fact that he (supposedly) knows more about what's going, than any of us non-mods and non-developers. Can you imagine what would make an insider willingly want to detach themselves and get as far away as possible from a project such as this? It might actually be that bad..... I know what you're saying, but given that those guys put in tons of work without any compensation, I wouldn't imagine it'd be *too* hard to walk away from the position. Still, he did seem to pour a good bit of his energy into it, and it's a shame to see it end like that for him (whether he was ousted or just left). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I suspect he's still on the "A-Team" but decided to give up his moderator duties. And who could blame him. Just guessing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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