All the renders you can eat for $59!

[SkylineArch]

I've had a client ask for a rendering to be happier.

 

Was the client Bob Ross?

[notamondayfan]

Only difference here I guess would be the assumption that the software is illegal and the wages they are paying are sweatshop rates. Anyone know what the going hourly rate would be to work in such a place in India?

 

According to Google, the average wage in India is 0.2 USD per hour!

So even if we're "generous" and pay over double that, $59 could account for over 120 hours!!

The biggest cost has to be hardware.

[M V]

Update 2 came in with an email saying they sent it on Monday and I should check my Spam folder - there was nothing in my spam folder as I have been watching in closely.

 

Comments I sent on the last round were to match the fridge and island chairs, have the backsplash fade as in the photo, match the drawer pulls to photo and to make sure the range was the correct one, with a griddle area in the middle. I also asked about a higher resolution and making the lighting "pop".

 

This could be a long and painful process to get a final image...

[notamondayfan]

It looks like they've just pasted the fridge image onto a badly sized box. I wouldn't even do this for a draft, nevermind a complete image!

 

Do they ever give an expected level of quality or style before the job starts?

 

 

The more I see of this, the more I'm reassured my quality is worth the money I charge. In the past I have had enquiries asking "I'd like to see what my house will look like with new windows, and I want to try various styles". Of course my fees often come back too high, and it's not the kind of work I do. The $59 renders are more for this type of thing, where a quick, dirty image is required.

[M V]

This has never been more relevant...

 

[M V]

Sent another round of edits yesterday morning, never heard back. This is painful. This is probably be my last shot at getting revisions. In all reality, if I needed this for a client presentation I would have been screwed already. I'll keep you all posted.

[Greg Francis]

Sent another round of edits yesterday morning, never heard back. This is painful. This is probably be my last shot at getting revisions. In all reality, if I needed this for a client presentation I would have been screwed already. I'll keep you all posted.

 

It'll be interesting to see what the final outcome of this exercise will be!

 

Thanks a lot for doing what most of us are either too lazy or tight to do!

[Lewis Garrison]

Those "corrections" they made are laughable. Especially the photoshopped fridge with the image literally copy pasted from your email. If you were a real client you would be screwed. I showed this thread to everyone in my office for a good laugh. It's also nice to know what those foreign studios spamming architecture firms inbox with super dirt cheap renders are really all about.

[Francisco Penaloza]

It has been said many times in this forum and everywhere else, all those companies are for the quick cash. The only relation they are concentrated is for clients to keep sending them work, they are about quantity and not quality or professional growth. The sad part is, sometimes it is actually one guy or a few people who are trying really hard to do something, but most of the time it is a bigger fish that pay peanuts to a group of worker to deliver as fast as they can, (sweat shops) So imagine that a company that charge you $59 how much they pay the actual worker.

Usually, you know about it because they come in waves, first forums get populated of "what the best setting for interiors rendering" then your email get full of cheap rendering offers, but if you go into details they can't deliver.

 

A long time ago the company that I used to work, they need it an animation, I was already busy with my buddy doing something else they didn't want to wait so they outsource it, after so much dealing and promises it was a half baked animation the camera was moving so fast it was ridiculous.

 

When the architect asked to slow down the camera and some extra changes, all that they did was re-compress the file at a lower frame rate. the whole thing was a disaster.

 

Thank you for keep in us posted, I would not expect a better output of what it been sent, quality is OK, but details won't change or even any try to post work or make any effort to make this image special. For some people, this is OK, better than using default Sketchup or as good as a quick Lumion.

And that is the main problem for us, The big trend of "Good enough" in our industry.

Edited August 9, 2017 by fco3d

[M V]

Update response -

 

"Thank you for your feedback/ comments. I have shared the same with my technical team. Accordingly, I will get back to you by Tuesday."

 

We'll how this last pass goes but I think Francisco hit the nail on the head with his comment above.

[M V]

This mornings email, "Can you give us an example of Lighting pop?"

 

Sending an image of JJ Abrams

[Josef Wienerroither]

This mornings email, "Can you give us an example of Lighting pop?"

 

Sending an image of JJ Abrams

 

To be fair, this should have been worded clearer, considering that you communicate with non native englisch speakers. From the above quote, i myself had troubles understanding what it supposed to mean ( i'm non-native but otherwise confident english speaker). Your original sentence "to make the lighting "pop"" i understood though, because it's somewhat graphical designer's slang ...

[khaledbou]

all of this is the consequence of overpopulation, Indian mothers should slow down with the reproduction process ... otherwise we will end up with people making animations for 5$

I myself I'm from the third world, but honestly If I was able I would never let my parents give birth to me...

[M V]

To be fair, this should have been worded clearer, considering that you communicate with non native englisch speakers. From the above quote, i myself had troubles understanding what it supposed to mean ( i'm non-native but otherwise confident english speaker). Your original sentence "to make the lighting "pop"" i understood though, because it's somewhat graphical designer's slang ...

 

I think that the exercise here is to pose as an American looking to get a $400-500 for $59. This is a very common request from a client.

[M V]

Ok, here we go. Drum roll please...

 

2 weeks - 3 revisions

 

The only thing I have now asked if this is the final resolution.

[Francisco Penaloza]

Now here is the question, even though you know, there is a big possibility that they are using illegal software, also that there may be a team manager that it is barely paying to the actual worker, and because that business practices our industry as devaluated impressively. next, come is VFX and Engineerings and so on.

Would you hire them so your bottom expenses improve and you save money?

[M V]

Final hi res image. I asked if they could make the image "more realistic". Their response was

 

As per my technical team, they have delivered their best in terms of realistic look and perspective-wise.

 

 

In conclusion - $59 will get you a 10 megapixel rendering with unlimited revisions (if you have a lot of time to get it done). The communication was slow but we all agree, for that price point, most lower-tier clients would probably be OK with it.

 

I could never use them to outsource to because I would never deliver an image like this to a client. If a client called me and told me that they have no budget and need a 2-3 images for under $200. I would recommend this as an option. I could act as the middle man dealing with the communication and revisions for a small fee maybe.

[Ernest Burden III]

This has been a very interesting exercise. I'm glad it happened. The image is not all awful, so probably worth the $59, but the timing is NOT worth that. It would cost you a client.

 

I couldn't resist trying a few minutes of Photoshop over the final. Of course, I rarely am going for photo-like results. But if you are, you could do some editing and improve their base file in that direction.

[Francisco Penaloza]

So for you guys is OK to use illegal software and pay peanuts to people to do the work as long is cheaper for you??

Since when our industry treated it self so bad, if a client tells me 'I want the image that POP', 'I want energy', I do understand what that means, when he says ' that wall is redish' I know what tone he really meant. I am just a phone call away or up to 30 minutes to answer an email. I can tell him that if his budget is $200 he does not need 3 images to sell that low budget project, maybe one image, a simple nice Sketchup may do. A visualization artist is not a render button pusher, is someone who explains with images others people ideas, dreams, and concepts, interpret ambiguous language and funny word with something as explicit as an image. That and also consulting and helping to develop any media to promote their project, VR, Print, TV and what not. That's the value of our profession, not as fast as we can spit images, is it is a matter of speed any Architect, Engineer, Contractor or some one in the field could grab Enscape or Lumion and create theirs own good enough images.

 

That company is charging you $59 dollars, how much are they paying their employees?? he already told you he talked to his 'artist' to do stuff. Come on, poor guys can they survive with $2 a week?? and if they can, should they? Why we don do something good for this planet and pay people what they deserve and not what their market is set for their region.

 

I don't want to be part of that, Autodesk, Maxon, Foundry loose a lot of money every year because of piracy, they need to recover that money some how. We are paying all that, being the middle man of a $200 x 3 images project sound like a very bad deal. $59x3 =177 so will you be answering your client questions, comments and call for 3 weeks for just $25 dollars?? Then you tell me, oh but I would charge more to manage that project, then why not talk you client to pay a little more for one great image, instead of falling into that rabbit hole of $59.

Edited August 9, 2017 by fco3d

[M V]

This has been a very interesting exercise. I'm glad it happened. The image is not all awful, so probably worth the $59, but the timing is NOT worth that. It would cost you a client.

 

I couldn't resist trying a few minutes of Photoshop over the final. Of course, I rarely am going for photo-like results. But if you are, you could do some editing and improve their base file in that direction.

 

I'm going to send you $59 Ernest!

[M V]

So for you guys is OK to use illegal software and pay peanuts to people to do the work as long is cheaper for you??

Since when our industry treated it self so bad, if a client tells me 'I want the image that POP', 'I want energy', I do understand what that means, when he says ' that wall is redish' I know what tone he really meant. I am just a phone call away or up to 30 minutes to answer an email. I can tell him that if his budget is $200 he does not need 3 images to sell that low budget project, maybe one image, a simple nice Sketchup may do. A visualization artist is not a render button pusher, is someone who explains with images others people ideas, dreams, and concepts, interpret ambiguous language and funny word with something as explicit as an image. That and also consulting and helping to develop any media to promote their project, VR, Print, TV and what not. That's the value of our profession, not as fast as we can spit images, is it is a matter of speed any Architect, Engineer, Contractor or some one in the field could grab Enscape or Lumion and create theirs own good enough images.

 

That company is charging you $59 dollars, how much are they paying their employees?? he already told you he talked to his 'artist' to do stuff. Come on, poor guys can they survive with $2 a week?? and if they can, should they? Why we don do something good for this planet and pay people what they deserve and not what their market is set for their region.

 

I don't want to be part of that, Autodesk, Maxon, Foundry loose a lot of money every year because of piracy, they need to recover that money some how. We are paying all that, being the middle man of a $200 x 3 images project sound like a very bad deal. $59x3 =177 so will you be answering your client questions, comments and call for 3 weeks for just $25 dollars?? Then you tell me, oh but I would charge more to manage that project, then why not talk you client to pay a little more for one great image, instead of falling into that rabbit hole of $59.

 

Not saying we are OK with any of it. I think it's a reality we need to face and now you have a story to tell clients about going to India. Tell them how slow and painful it was to get edits done. At the end of the day, the image still doesnt look like the reference images.

 

Some will be ok with it, just like some clients out there ask for free work for "exposure" or to "build your portfolio".

 

It's just the landscape of the industry. Kind of like all the crap that's manufactured in China and sold at 100X profit back to us. Is any of it moral or fair? I remember hearing a podcast a long time about about the FoxCon plant in China and how the people who work there making iPhones were jumping from the building to kill themselves so they put up nets. It's sad and the reason why we all struggle to make ends meet each day.

 

If you make great art, you won't have to worry about 59-A-Render Co Inc. Keep doing great work - that has tons of value.

Edited August 9, 2017 by matthewvalero

[heni30]

I think you are now officially on the Indian "black listed" client list. (with 3 exclamation marks!)

[M V]

I think you are now officially on the Indian "black listed" client list. (with 3 exclamation marks!)

 

Lord knows they are all on here asking how to "make interiors lighting look good".

[Rodolfo Tanno]

...

That company is charging you $59 dollars, how much are they paying their employees?? he already told you he talked to his 'artist' to do stuff. Come on, poor guys can they survive with $2 a week?? and if they can, should they? Why we don do something good for this planet and pay people what they deserve and not what their market is set for their region.

 

Do you think about it when going to buy an Iphone, Tennis, Clothing or other manufactured goods in the Third World?

[Francisco Penaloza]

Do you think about it when going to buy an Iphone, Tennis, Clothing or other manufactured goods in the Third World?

 

Actually, I do, I grew up in one of them, I am from Chile. I don't own an iPhone or any Apple device for many reasons, one of them as mentioned above.

I have an old Nokia as far as I could get by then, not anymore tho Nokia got sold to other company so now they are using Foxconn too.