Maxwell Render 1.5

[Adehus]

Debatable? No I don't think so.

If my firm let some or all of its clients down and those clients wanted us to be closed down or liquidated, I would deem that to be an over reaction.

 

I don't think anyone's ever said anything about being closed down or liquidated. The question's always been simple- can they continue to cheese off an increasingly vocal group of customers without feeling it?

 

If your firm let some or all of it's client's down, it'd deserve to lose those clients, and probably quite a few potential future clients... period.

 

 

a lot of people see this forum as a complaints recepticle populated by VRay users.

 

'A lot of people' are wrong. I've personally never even touched VRay. A couple of the guys I've chatted with who have voiced their frustration here were all C4D users. From your self appointed position of wisdom, you've managed to miss the obvious: complaints are, as much as anything, tied in to the quality/useability of the Maxwell plugin for the modeling app a particular poster uses (some of these apps aren't even compatible with VRay).

[manta]

And if you want, I can name some firms who are happily using Maxwell, normally in association with a faster rendering application for 'everyday' work.

Some of them have made their feelings known about the software and Next Limit but they seem to feel the benefits outweigh the slow to non existent progress.

 

I would love to hear about them, and who they made their feelings known to...

[IC]

The argument here is one of simple business: if you are cheesed off with Maxwell, stop using it, particularly when there are such great things going on at the Fry camp. Not to mention the fact you will almost undoubtedly own other render solutions. It didn't and continues not to meet your expectations, so write it off.

We have very little outlay or overheads as an industry and in relative terms, the occasional purchase or upgrade of software/hardware we have to invest in is nothing, especially nowadays when software is so cheap.

Investing in a new, untested application is a risk, plain and simple.

 

I impart my wisdom (and it's not self appointed-I have a badge from the Wise People's Association) on this subject because I'm a member here and I feel it's gone on long enough.

Compared to other software forums on this site, there are some interesting and helpful threads but the only ones that ever get into double figures are the complaints rallies.

Another let down from Next Limit?? No, surely not! Sarcasm and self indulgence follow.

 

Manta, I'll PM you with the information you seek so badly.

[Adehus]

I impart my wisdom (and it's not self appointed-I have a badge from the Wise People's Association) on this subject because I'm a member here and I feel it's gone on long enough.

 

And everyone else who has participated in this thread prior to your arrival has posted their point of view because they're a member and because they feel they have something to say... this doesn't really validate anything, now does it?

 

It didn't and continues not to meet your expectations, so write it off.

 

Take your own advice- if the thread doesn't please you, write it off!

[Bwana Kahawa]

Anyone tried 1.5 on a Mac with Form Z yet?!

 

I was going to install the update this afternoon, but if it's still buggy and we can't open 1.1 files, then I'll be better off waiting until they fix those problems...

[Adehus]

Anyone tried 1.5 on a Mac with Form Z yet?!

 

I've been holding off because of this:

 

http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23292

 

FWIW, it looks to be a OSX only bug. After they get that fixed, I'll give it a shot.

[Bwana Kahawa]

Bummer. Guess if it's OSX only then it won't be too long to wait. And I've got the knack of waiting by now...

[Devin Johnston]

The argument here is one of simple business: if you are cheesed off with Maxwell, stop using it, particularly when there are such great things going on at the Fry camp. Not to mention the fact you will almost undoubtedly own other render solutions. It didn't and continues not to meet your expectations, so write it off.

That is easier said than done for some of us who have not only invested lots of money in their software but also years of our lives. Simply moving to another piece of software just isn't that simple believe me I wish it were.

[Ernest Burden III]

Simply moving to another piece of software just isn't that simple believe me I wish it were.

 

You can't start healing while you're still being beaten.

[3dworks]

....

As for a reason for this forum being short of positive contributions, I'd reiterate something I said before: a lot of people see this forum as a complaints recepticle populated by VRay users.

 

...I can only agree here. it's one of the reason's i'm not posting anymore for a long time now in this forum. Month after month, week after week, day after day, the same few complainers with the same few 'arguments' here... it's like a broken disk. No software is perfect, even Maxwell isn't of course, but there are lots of professional users doing great images with it - like with any other application. So why not use this forum in a professional way?

 

Unfortunately, this Maxwell forum does not have the quality of a helpful resource anymore for a long time now because it is taken over by such a negative spirit.

 

See you again in a few weeks - i'm still watching, from time to time...

 

markus

[Fran]

Ah. I see. Maxwell customers should not be allowed to express their personal opinions here either?

 

Well, here's another one of my personal opinions - rogue threads like this one do not get in the way of anyone seeking or receiving technical help with MWR. If someone were to post a tech question, and some members allowed it to de-evolve into customer gripe sessions, then you would have a valid point. I'm not sayinig it has never happened, but it is strongly discouraged.

 

If you see a tech question and refuse to answer it because of threads like this one, then that is a personal issue you should deal with in the way you most see fit.

[Adehus]

Unfortunately, this Maxwell forum does not have the quality of a helpful resource anymore for a long time now because it is taken over by such a negative spirit.

 

I think it's mostly reflective of the general sense forum goers here have about Maxwell's utility vs it's aggravation factor. I'm sure it'll come as no surprise to you that the tone of this forum generally reflects my feelings.

 

Nonetheless, when people here post with tech questions, I think they tend to get quality answers that probably rival what they'd get elsewhere.

 

To me, the really sad thing is that you can't seem to get much helpful input from the MWR forum, from what I've seen (and certainly not from anyone associated with NL!) Do you have any idea how many queries in the MacOS and some plugin forums go without any response whatsoever?

 

I find AJLynn's and Maxer's responses to be as helpful as anything you'd get from MWR, if not more so.

[Jeff Mottle]

Month after month, week after week, day after day, the same few complainers with the same few 'arguments' here... it's like a broken disk. No software is perfect, even Maxwell isn't of course, but there are lots of professional users doing great images with it - like with any other application. So why not use this forum in a professional way?

 

I have to agree with you here 100%, I'm not going to start censoring threads, but at some point if you don't think a product works for you...move on. It still kind of boggles me that peope expend so much energy to complain when they could be focusing on more positive things like growing their business and finding other tools that do meet their needs. Those that bought when it was a beta and feel they did not get what they expected, I don't see it any different then buying stocks. You win some you lose some, it was a beta after all.

 

I understand the source of the frustration stemmed from incidents a year or so ago, but I have to admit some of the comments are getting old now.

[Fran]

I would say that the vast majority of comments are based on the actual topic of this thread. People had high hopes for this release, based mostly on the hype created by NL. It's unrealistic to expect people to not want to discuss new releases of a software. It's even less realistic to expect people to hold back their criticism.

 

And I really do feel that there are some who feel they have a responsibility to warn others of their own bad experiences with a company.

[IC]

People had high hopes for this release, based mostly on the hype created by NL.

 

But you see Fran, that's quite hard to believe when the last time there was a newsletter never mind a release, there was a barrage of sarcastic criticism dredging up the same old jokes and low wit for page after page.

 

Why should things change this time? I'm an optomistic type but I would not have believed the hype you are referring to after what took place before.

[Adehus]

I understand the source of the frustration stemmed from incidents a year or so ago....

 

With all due respect, I have a hard time agreeing with that. While it's fair to observe that NL kicked off Maxwell with an, ahem, most inauspicious introduction, the current frustration is with events from a week or two ago.

 

It's worth considering that most people feel as though Maxwell is problematic not because of it's image quality, but because of the quality of the code. That is to say, it's just incredibly buggy! The plugins are often unuseable or at best partly useable, and some of the functions that have been advertised in bright lights are either useless or incomplete. See the link I posted earlier in this thread for just one deal-breaking example, or ask Maxer about network rendering.

 

Given that, updates (like the one which occurred recently and initiated this thread) will always bring the hope that whatever problems a user has that keep them from using MWR will be addressed adequately. And, when those problems are not addressed, or when new problems are added, dissapointment ensues.

 

Of course, it's forbidden to express dissapointment on Maxwell's forum. So... people come here and hence this thread.

 

I personally don't think anyone's being unreasonable... we're all just posting information that reflects our feelings about the app and the company that has developed it. And, by and large, these feelings are not unreasonable.

 

Those that bought when it was a beta and feel they did not get what they expected, I don't see it any different then buying stocks. You win some you lose some, it was a beta after all.

 

That's the thing with investing... you hope it'll eventually pan out. Since I'm apparently forbidden from selling my 'stock' (without even being told that at the time of purchase!), I just have to hope something good will eventually come of it. While pessimism reigns in this instance, I can't think of anyone who wouldn't prefer to just have a decent workable version of the app. And it's not entirely impossible that it could appear, is it?

 

Or maybe it is impossible. In that case, I'd suggest that it may be worth considering shutting down the Maxwell forum on CGA. After all, we don't see many people who frequent this forum who feel that Maxwell is suitable for professional use as of now. If we agree that it'll never happen, then why keep the unrest alive?

[Fran]

But you see Fran, that's quite hard to believe when the last time there was a newsletter never mind a release, there was a barrage of sarcastic criticism dredging up the same old jokes and low wit for page after page.

 

If you disagree with my notion as to why many of the users have had such a volatile reaction to the latest NL marketing campaign, then that is certainly your perogative. It was merely an observation on my part; a way of trying to explain why people feel the way they do about Next Limit.

 

Why should things change this time? I'm an optomistic type but I would not have believed the hype you are referring to after what took place before.

 

A very interesting statement. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

[Ernest Burden III]

THE REVOLUTION CONTINUES...

 

Maxwell Render™ ... the revolutionary development continues every day. We have more ground breaking features and methodologies waiting for the right moment to be made public.

 

I don't see it any different then buying stocks. You win some you lose some...

 

some of the comments are getting old now.

 

I wrote off my money a year ago. But from an entertainment viewpoint, NextLimit is an annuity. After all that's happened, NL couldn't figure out how to be a little more humble than that? That's not an old line from them, that's recent. And I sincerely hope for myself and my collegues that NL pulls their head out of their hype and produces a good product. v1.5 may be close.

 

But we do not help anybody by pretending everything is sweets and roses when it isn't. I'm fine with the loss of my investment, but I don't wish the same fate on others in our field. So you point out crap when you see it, and the good things, too.

 

In the end, I'm just happy bantering with these people. Maxwell attracted a lot of smart, witty and creative people. They're just more fun than Maxwell is.

[bytor]

As a disinterested 3rd party (I did not purchase any licenses of Maxwell due to the concerns voiced here and at other forums after the beta release) I would like to second the notion Ernest made with regards to entertainment value. While it is tiresome when someone can't leave a dead issue alone - look at the topic of this thread!

 

I am entertained by the creative banter, and also well informed regarding the latest release of Maxwell. Leo's wonderfull images aside - based on the time constraints and other issues that still exist - I will not consider purchasing Maxwell as a renderer for my Sketchup work.

 

So - the criticisms are current, and also appropriate to see here as long as it isn't dumped into a thread asking for help. If they seem somewhat repetitive to those from earlier versions - that should tell you something about how well the software has progressed!

 

Just my opinions of course.......

Bytor

[Adehus]

If they seem somewhat repetitive to those from earlier versions - that should tell you something about how well the software has progressed!

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

There isn't anyone complaining here who hasn't either tested the new version or chosen not to due to well documented problems. If NL would put out a decent release, I'd be the first to say so, and I doubt I'm in the minority.

 

...So threads such as this one have

a great relevance to community members using this site.

 

I'm extremely glad to hear this, and I hope that this point is not lost on anyone.

[IC]

I haven't produced much with Maxwell (3 useable renders in the last year) and it doesn't work very well with LightWave but it didn't cost my firm very much and I enjoyed playing with it for a while. The return in speculative interest my firm recieved for one of the jobs I used it on covered the cost of the license 200 fold.

 

To my mind, that's the long and the short of it. It's there on my hard drive for the scenes that I think would benefit from it.

I never thought it would replace anything else I use and if, one day, it becomes an invaluable tool, then that would be great. At the moment, it's far from it but I sleep very well at night, despite the best efforts of my nocturnal children.

 

Had I bought 30 seats out of my own pocket, I might feel differently but, as Jeff said, it was a risk akin to buying stocks.

 

One viz firm I know of, Cityscape, use it extensively and to amazing effect. They also talk of issues with the LW plug-in but somehow they soldier on.

 

By all means warn people off or exercise your right to complain after your own experiences but it's the predictable repetition that grates.

[3dworks]

i'm using maxwell for nearly all of my interior projects now (and for the last 9 months), with great success and appreciation by the clients. the workflow with formz and lightwave is quite good. of course maxwell needs - like any other complex render engine - some time to get known, so an unexperienced user may have some frustrations first. it has some glitches as any other renderer out there has, but, compared to most of my other programs (i'm also using modo) all in all, it is a very stable and reliable engine.

 

1.5 introduces many of the long awaited compositing features (like a working zdepth, premultiplied (or solid) alpha, shadow masks), which makes the everyday tweaking in photoshop even easier.

 

markus

[Ernest Burden III]

i'm using maxwell...with great success and appreciation by the clients.

 

Markus

 

Thank you for sticking around to post that. If too many people are being negative and you have something positive to say, its good that you do. It keeps us balanced. There's a saying in the restaurant business that's something like "a customer who has a good experience will tell one or two friends, while a customer who had a bad experience will tell ten". That's how it goes. It's nice to know that MWR is working for you.

[Adehus]

...it was a risk akin to buying stocks.

 

I really don't like the stock comparison, because stocks are bought and sold.

 

I can't sell my Maxwell licenses. And they really aren't worth much to me otherwise. Oh, and I bought them under the assumption that NL's promises were worth something, which they weren't.

 

So, closest investing comparison I can make is to Enron.

[Adehus]

1.5 introduces many of the long awaited compositing features (like a working zdepth, premultiplied (or solid) alpha, shadow masks)...

 

Yeah, and fireflies that are attracted to glass... are you really able to use 1.5 like that?

 

I ask with genuine interest, because the OSX fireflies and 'fleas' are the problem that is keeping me from trying 1.5 out.