Hello, I'm making ultrarealistic 3D people models using 120 DSLR photogrammetry rig

[denisvoronin]

It's quite popular. You can download a free sample and use it in any of your archviz projects.

http://futurescan.co

 

I'm very interested in your opinions.

 

Thanks

Edited December 14, 2014 by denisvoronin

[Noise]

They look great Denis, how does your rig work ?

[Scott Schroeder]

They look good but they suffer from the same flaws that every other 3d scan collection has out there. That is their hair looks like plastic toupees melted onto their heads. It kills any sort of realism. You've got to put some time and actually do the hair in geometry. Scanned hair looks atrocious.

 

The texture sheets are the typical messy ones. That's the other huge reason I don't buy these collections. If I want to put more than one copy of the same person and I don't want my scene to look like the white shirt clan, I can't go into the texture sheet and easily edit the shirt color. Nor can I easily separate out the skin areas from the cloth areas so I can do a proper SSS shader on the skin so my people don't all look like corpses with caked on make up.

[Tommy L]

Do you sell them as a collection or only as individual models?

So far as feedback goes, you need ethnic diversity, especially if you want to sell well in the USA.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Tommy L

[Francisco Penaloza]

Even though I kind of agree with Scott's comments, I think these models look pretty good. Mesh seems to be consistent, and textures are good.

Regarding with the extra step to make them "Perfect" I think there is a decision that was made already regarding price, because, if you need volume and quality, how much the final price will be? model the hair and proper organize the UVs take time, and a ~$29 dollars a pop I think this is a good deal already. Pay $100 for each model, I don't think it will be in my budget or my company budget.

 

 

Maybe have an other tier of custom UV and high detail with other price, it may fit other customers standards right?

 

Diversity is the Key in this business man, so far everybody that create this models seems to be located in Europe.

You can't find that diversity of people there, well maybe a USA partner would help

[Nic H]

I downloaded your free model and i don't think these are an improvement on whats available on the market at the moment. They are a bit funny looking.

 

It reminds me of a slightly better version of these http://xoio-air.de/2014/3d-people-model-set/ (which are free)

 

As far as a commercial product the axyz ones are better at a slighty higher price. Id be happy to pay around $100- $150 for a whole collection if you made a few improvements.

 

1. Proper topology

2. Better laid texture sheets to be able to make more variations.

3. Proxy versions allready made up

4. Texture variations allready made up

 

The normal maps look like the auto generated ones that you make in crazy bump rather than geometry derived ones from zbrush?

 

Currently i can only see theses being usable in the far distance and in aerial type perspectives. I wouldn't tolerate them in the foreground.

 

In general the styling is good and would suit a business plaza type image (apart from the usual weird euro dude with a satchel on that seems to be a favourite in 3d people collections....)

 

The posing is also not flexible if you are too repeat them. How many handshakes can one image take? A lot of weird bags, ipads and things being held. You need more regular idle, walking and sitting poses.

 

It sounds like you have invested in a difficult process and i hope to see larger, better quality, better priced and diverse packs from you in future.

Edited November 22, 2014 by nicnic

[Rich O]

I second Scott too, I really want models that I can easily add my own shaders to, ie "skin areas", hair, and eyes are separate pieces. Right now everyone's models are right in the creepy middle of the uncanny valley.

 

Anyway a great start, can't wait to see how you advance them!

Edited November 23, 2014 by Richard7666

[Amen]

I like the models. They look really good. But I do not think I would use them in the foreground.

 

But to be honest, I have not seen any 3d people which I would us in the foreground.

[denisvoronin]

First of all thank you very much for all your replies and advises everybody. I really appreciate this. Now there are some matters I would like to clarify. How we do it: we use lots of Canon DSLRs which are synchronized by custom made hardware. For software we use photogrammetry solution - Agisoft Photoscan. Now when we started all this we had AXYZ Design in front of us so we tried to match it's level of quality but for lower cost for customers (and actually our customers say our scans are on par with AXYZ, AXYZ itself does not have own photogrammetry rig and moreover we were approached by AXYZ in summer of 2014 who wanted to use us as an outsource company who would scan and handle to AXYZ raw material but as you can see we decided to pursue it on our own). Second - diversity is the key - that is absolutely correct but we have a small problem with diversity here but there is a solution - AXYZ has diversity and it's models while more expensive can easily complement our models - for diversity purposes )) As for pricing: first of all AXYZ models are way more expensive - we sell our models exclusively on turbosquid.com and presently receive a little more that 50% from each sale while our models are priced 29-35 USD, if you look at those of AXYZ on turbosquid.com (models from photogrammetry scans) - they are priced evenly at 65 USD each, plus we provide highpoly file with each model which proved useful for some of our clients (AXYZ does not). As for other things which could be improved: I suppose with today's models we found a sweet spot for expenses per model/return per model just as AXYZ did. And I also wanted to let you know that we made two collections of models which are now on sale and even compared to AXYZ collections are a great deal. If you are interested - you are welcome to browse it. Again, thank you very much for your time and expertise.

Edited December 2, 2014 by denisvoronin

[Trick]

Showed this collection to some clients, and generally they like them. They all had the same issue with some of the sitting females: why would anyone would like to see bra straps on one shoulder ???

[denisvoronin]

Eric, thank you for your kind words. Actually so far I only had one return (one can make a return under certain conditions on turbosquid.com) but there was a texture mismatch and after I uploaded the right one - the model was bought again. Moreover everybody can download contact information along with free sample and lots of clients do - I can see that through "author console" but so far nobody told me they are having some problems with sitting models. As for bra straps )) that is exactly why this particular model is "free sample". Sometimes things like this can happen.

[Chris MacDonald]

Could you not scan them in the "T-Pose" position so that they could be rigged, and more easily retopologised?

 

Just a thought.

[denisvoronin]

Chris, thank you for this question. Before we begun doing ready-posed models we asked several archviz companies if they are interested in T-posed models - everybody said "no" so we proceeded with ready-posed. In fact we did several T-posed scans and have them on file but I guess we will process them after we are done with "ready-posed" as these seem to be more in demand.

Edited December 3, 2014 by denisvoronin

[Chris MacDonald]

Fair enough.

[Devin Johnston]

I think these are on par with Axyz, some of them look better than others but I think the price makes up for that. My only critique would be to spend more time on the face and hair, they both look low poly and kind of flat. I'd also like to warn you to keep their clothing and poses conservative, my biggest issues with Axyz are how they dress and pose these people. They need to be able to fit into any scene, they shouldn't stand out because in Arch Viz they aren't the focus there just filler.

[harryhirsch]

''''First of all thank you very much for all your replies and advises everybody. I really appreciate this. Now there are some matters I would like to clarify. How we do it: we use lots of Canon DSLRs which are synchronized by custom made hardware. For software we use photogrammetry solution - Agisoft Photoscan. Now when we started all this we had AXYZ Design in front of us so we tried to match it's level of quality but for lower cost for customers (and actually our customers say our scans are on par with AXYZ, AXYZ itself does not have own photogrammetry rig and moreover we were approached by AXYZ in summer of 2014 who wanted to use us as an outsource company who would scan and handle to AXYZ raw material but as you can see we decided to pursue it on our own). Second - diversity is the key - that is absolutely correct but we have a small problem with diversity here but there is a solution - AXYZ has diversity and it's models while more expensive can easily complement our models - for diversity purposes )) As for pricing: first of all AXYZ models are way more expensive - we sell our models exclusively on turbosquid.com and presently receive a little more that 50% from each sale while our models are priced 29-35 USD, if you look at those of AXYZ on turbosquid.com (models from photogrammetry scans) - they are priced evenly at 65 USD each, plus we provide highpoly file with each model which proved useful for some of our clients (AXYZ does not). As for other things which could be improved: I suppose with today's models we found a sweet spot for expenses per model/return per model just as AXYZ did. And I also wanted to let you know that we made two collections of models which are now on sale and even compared to AXYZ collections are a great deal. If you are interested - you are welcome to browse it. Again, thank you very much for your time and expertise.'''''

 

 

I read 11 times AXYZ in that text...you guys should focus on your own qualities

[denisvoronin]

Harry, often one sees what one wants to see. ) AXYZ is our main competitor and frankly I do not see a problem mentioning it 11 times. As for diversity we may very well complement each other.

[denisvoronin]

Devin, very good point actually. We try to make models look as neutral as possible. Often we succeed. Sometimes not so much. We use non-professional models and not everybody feels natural and relaxed in a new environment (ie in a center of a cube with lots of cameras pointing directly at you). We can't afford to wait couple of hours just to make models feel more "at home" as well as we cannot afford pro models and I'm sure you heard that most professional photographers do wait and can afford to wait even with pro models. Lots of things can be improved - no doubt about that. Why is it still not improved? Probably because it's too expensive to do in current market conditions ie too niche demand. These digital doubles have to compete with current industry standart - 2D, 2.5D cutout people - which sell for 20 bucks per hundred and are super cheap to make. 3D digital doubles are way, way more expensive to produce even with non-pro models which makes them much more expensive than cutout people. Even if digital doubles would take 1% from cutout people market - that would surely advance everything connected with their production and features as apart from cutout people there is lots that can be improved and offered to archviz wizards.

Edited December 4, 2014 by denisvoronin

[M V]

Some tough customers out there, huh? I think these are actually pretty good for what they are.

 

The problem is not who or how a company makes these, the problem is 3D people in general. I think someone needs to make a 3D plugin / program that is similar to Poser or DAZ but focused on arch/viz. T Pose characters that can be easily... and I stress EASILY posed, varied, pick hi or lo poly depending on use, adjust attire and accessories QUICKLY (ie backpacks, iphones, etc), and preset materials for hair (possibly using Hair & Fur) and varying skin types. Whoever figures this out will make a fortune. Maybe someone should talk to iToo?

 

This is the quality I think folks are shooting for, at least in these forums.

 

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=713053

[denisvoronin]

Customers are always right even if they are not - after all they always vote with their dollars )). As for quality of the model you mentioned - it is ultra high end. No doubt. But one has to understand as well that small startups just can't afford to produce it in scale. If Autodesk or somebody alike with deep pockets decided market is ready for this - they could step into it even with negative margins and margins would surely be negative for sometime. In our case it is small steps only approach. And in my opinion this ultra high end approach will remain ultra high end in foreseeble future - there are models which are close to it on turbosquid they cost 500-1500 dollars each. And James Cameron does not outsource to turbosquid I'm sure )) If he did mass market might change faster.

Edited December 4, 2014 by denisvoronin

[Francisco Penaloza]

Some tough customers out there, huh? I think these are actually pretty good for what they are.

 

The problem is not who or how a company makes these, the problem is 3D people in general. I think someone needs to make a 3D plugin / program that is similar to Poser or DAZ but focused on arch/viz. T Pose characters that can be easily... and I stress EASILY posed, varied, pick hi or lo poly depending on use, adjust attire and accessories QUICKLY (ie backpacks, iphones, etc), and preset materials for hair (possibly using Hair & Fur) and varying skin types. Whoever figures this out will make a fortune. Maybe someone should talk to iToo?

 

This is the quality I think folks are shooting for, at least in these forums.

 

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=713053

 

I think we are missing the point here, I do agree that it is more a technology problem than this or that developer that sells the 3D human models. But what you are talking asking for, it can be done now. All what I heard is "I need a easy and fast way to" come on people, if you say fast and easy setup 3d humans, well there you have DAZ studio or Poser, honestly the latest release the quality is pretty good. yes it is now ILM quality but, DAZ if free for crying out loud, and honestly, will you spend hours setting up your model, choosing what jacket he will use or color dress, matching with shoes for the lady, when you still have to work in Landscaping and architects changes??

 

These tools are already out there, this mere 3d scan model you can change textures, you can adjust skin color, all what you need is dig a little in Photoshop and 3d Max and you can do it. There is plenty companies that do extreme real 3D humans, none of us will pay what they are asking for, because, they require a lot of prep time. I don't see any of us using Character studio to pose AXYZ models all what I see being use is already posed models. Sorry guys I read a lot of complains here for a product that is actually pretty decent, and affordable.

 

We are becoming very spoiled

[denisvoronin]

Francisco, thank you for your input and support )). First of all I wish we could offer our models for free, in fact if we were a part of some bigger company - we could easily do it just for brand awareness purposes, future market share or as DAZ to support other revenue flows of their other products. As for us it is a single revenue flow for now.

[Francisco Penaloza]

Just to clarify, I was not asking for your models to be free, I was just comparing technologies that are available now that are very good, free and people still not happy.

 

You should charge whatever you think is fair for your business.

[denisvoronin]

Francisco, I did understand this. Just wanted to clarify for others. Not all startups are guided by Peter Thiel, at least on our side of the globe ))

As for pricing - I consider current pricing fair. We may up it to 39 dollars each model because I want to certify it with "Check Mate" certificate and they have price tiers for this. But 39 USD is max. We will make another maybe 30-40 models and if demand won't catch up - will leave it like this - around 70 models.

One more thing, maybe it is amateurish but still: if somebody decides to buy a model - please add

"?referral=futurescan" to you address bar as it adds 20% of the price of the model to our commission and it is really important for us now. It's just a second for you to type in and 6 USD for us which goes directly into making new models. Or these 6 USD go directly to turbosquid.com. Or if you don't feel like it - don't. We will still be extremely grateful to you for your purchase. )

Edited December 4, 2014 by denisvoronin

[M V]

Spoiled? Then go uninstall your Rail Clone and your Forest Pro and do it the old fashioned way.

 

Gran pappy always said, "WORK SMART, NOT HARD"