Help me build a RIG with $1200 Budget

[unrinoceronte]

Vincent: How much is the budget right now with all these components? Still around the $1200?

 

Dimitris: For this particular budget and Specs, do you think it could be a good option for Vincent to go instead with a Brand PC like the DELL Precision T1700, or the Lenovo E31/32? I am all now for building our own computers, but it seems that at this particular pricepoint, these Brand models are a real option.

I explain this a little more in this previous post: http://forums.cgarchitect.com/74701-help-me-build-rig-1200-budget.html#post382014

 

He could even buy the Dell or Lenovo with the cheapest card included, and buy any GPU he wants somewhere else (Amazon, etc) and swap it. I am 95% sure this can be done, but anyways, what do you think?... One extra comment, altough insignificant in the scope of things, but both Dell and Lenovo Cases have great "looks", and seems that they are very well designed and tested... I am taking Lenovo's and Dell word for that... and well, all my previous Dell's have been really great machines.

[Dimitris Tolios]

Depends on what you are after.

With Dell/Lenovo you are ofc forgetting any overclocking capability - not that a 4770 or 4771 will be considered slow, but...

 

* You are getting a tad lower quality components sub-systems, for example the CPU power phase circuits: the OEM boards will be designed to intel spec, the mid-high range overclock-able mobos will be capable of delivering double the current of the original white book specs intel gives for the stock CPUs (yes, overclocked CPUs can draw 200-250% the power the stock does.

 

* Expand-ability usually suffers due to PSU: a low range i7 Dell/Lenovo will probably come with a 375-400W PSU or something in this range. It is ok to power a K600 or a basic GPU, it is pushing it already with a 650Ti or 660 and equiv. 77xx / 78xx GPUs that draw close to 150W max (one 6pin aux connector). Anything in the GTX 660Ti/670/7xx range or faster is out of the question. Same for Radeons 78xx / 79xx with higher than 150W power requirements.

Also, most motherboards are designed to operate within a certain envelope the manufacturer wishes to cover: PCIe, SATA and USB ports will probably be less than what you would find in a more enthusiast oriented mobo of the same form factor. Be careful with RAM configurations, as there is a chance of you getting a 16GB machine with 4 x 4GB sticks = making it hard to "just add a 2x8GB" to go @ 32GB in the future.

 

* Usually even cheap CLCs or larger air coolers are not an option, you are stuck with a proprietary CPU cooler most of the times, and even CPU cooler mounts might be proprietary. Not that temps will suffer per se, but some people are very anal about CPU temps (I'm not, but I am overclocking a healthy bit and I expect it)

 

* Case is usually of OK air flow and build quality, but i pretty limited in slots / GPU length and even PSU form factor (it it is not a medium tower or bigger.

 

* RAM is usually slower than what you get for similar money in DIY.

 

OFC ALL OF THE ABOVE IS JUDGED IN A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

Some models might be out there that I'm not aware of, and could be covering all those bases.

 

I think the sweet spot for factory computers is below $1000, not that you won't be able to match the specs with a DIY - but...

$1200 is already enough to build an i7 that can easily pack features that you won't see in anything before you knock the "alienware" brand from Dell, which ofc will set you back much more.

 

In no way a bad choice those Dells / Lenovos - even some ACER/ASUS...just don't buy them with expand-ability further than the scope of a future SSD/HDD or RAM addition.

Edited October 16, 2013 by dtolios

[vincentreyes]

Dimitris: Thanks for the reply and suggestion Dimitris, I'll stick with the Cooler Master N200 you suggested. I'll plan to switch to 'K' version if there would be anything left for the budget and will try overclocking it mildly.

JD: Yes the total budget is little under $1200 in my local currency.

 

By the way, I was wondering if there are any amd alternative for the gpu. I am considering Joel's reply "for lumion you want a gpu with as many cores as possible and amd offers more cores than nvidea and more Memory Interface Width for the same price" But of course within the same price range of the gtx 650.

Edited October 16, 2013 by vincentreyes

[unrinoceronte]

Dimitris, now you convinced me again. I was narrow minded in that part and did not tought about the expandability issues, and the PSU capacity, which you are completely right. And all the other things you mentioned i didn't know.

 

Vincent, you are definetely better served if you buy your own PC.

 

As Dimitris mentioned at the end, I would now say that those dell and lenovo models will be only a very good option but for someone that for once, doesn't want to build a computer, and doesn't want to mess with computer issues during the warranty years...since those brand's tech support will deal with that instead of you.... And for someone that does not plan on overclocking and is perfectly happy with a Quadro K600, and the small upgradeability mentioned above of SSD/HDD and RAM.

[Dimitris Tolios]

Dimitris: Thanks for the reply and suggestion Dimitris, I'll stick with the Cooler Master N200 you suggested. I'll plan to switch to 'K' version if there would be anything left for the budget and will try overclocking it mildly.

 

The capability is there, as the Asrock mobo you've quoted above can do decent & stable overclocking, the PSU can supply more than enough power and the Seidon - tho not the best - is leagues ahead of cheap air coolers and will serve you alright. I would get the 120XL or the 240 if I could afford the difference, but the 120M is more than enough.

The only part "missing" from an overclockable rig in the config you gave above, was not getting a K CPU, thus I've noted it.

 

I don't see any "deficiency" that would not allow you do run a 4770K around 4.3GHz or more (what BOXX based overclocked 4770K do for example). Yes, CPUs do overclock differently (some better and/or cooler than others) but 4.3GHz range is almost a safe bet with Haswell.

[joelmcwilliam]

@Vincent:

 

Like Dimitris said you can go for a overclock cpu.

 

Overclocking gets you:

 

-faster renderspeed

-faster single core speed

-and if you want to sell it it would be easier than a non-k cpu

 

BUT:

 

A haswell is a very difficult cpu to overclock, because its produces so much heat, especially overclocked. The haswell produces way more heat than it predecessors. Like if you compare temperatures to a sandy bridge, the haswell can get up to 20 degrees warmer comparing it to a sandy bridge. And that sucks. Look at the following link to see what i mean:

 

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/2013/sechs-haswell-mit-vier-kernen/6/

 

Lower temperatures is one of the reasons why a sandy brigde was easier to overclock, because it didn't get so hot. So if you want to overclock the haswell you're going to need a very good cpu cooler. If you do a moderate overclock you don't need the best cpu cooler out there.

 

Cons for overclocking a haswell:

 

-a lot of heat you have to get rid of

-thus your system becomes noisier (fans)

-you need more expensive parts

-and if you are not lucky with your cpu you can not overclock a haswell cpu to more than 4,2 ghz (no shit)

 

So my advice would be to get a non-k cpu.

 

Pros for not overclocking:

 

-stock i7 haswell is plenty fast enough

-you will get less heat and thus less noise

-you can get cheaper parts (big pro for you)

 

If you get the non-k cpu you can even get away (as Dimitris mentioned) with the stock cooler. This man doing it: http://forums.cgarchitect.com/74013-mini-itx-render-node-build-write-up.html

However he did not show any temperature readings, that is why i would suggest to buy a good budget aftermarket air cpu cooler, just to keep temperatures and noise a bit down.

 

Now because you are on a budget, you want to get the best bang for the buck. So i would start by getting non overclockable parts to save money. Try to get a more balanced system by getting a better graphics card in your build.

 

Often a good gaming system is also a good enthusiast workstation (but for a workstation you do want a good cpu and plenty of ram). So what you need is just to configure a good gaming system with a good cpu and enough ram.

 

Dimitris gave you a very good alternative for a case. Just watch out and don't put a too big mobo in it, because it won't fit. To continue about the mobo. Did you follow my advise I gave you in my previous post and looked up the difference between the B85 and H87 mobo's? If not, do it anyway. If you don't need the extra's of the h87 chipset get a b85 mobo. There is very little difference in performance between budget and expensive motherboards. The following link is an example of a previous generation motherboard, but it is the idea and results that counts:

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/B75M-D3H/

 

More about the case. The kind of case you should buy also depends on how big you want it. Etc. You didn't mentioned that. This is a mistake I see a lot when people start asking what to buy. They want easy information but put too little effort in providing information themselves by just giving information to people they are seeking advise from. So try to do better.

 

Now for the graphics card (gpu).

 

You do want a gaming card. Which one? Well that depends on how much money you have left. I am going to give you a link that shows how good a gpu is. Now look closely at the following table:

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_270X/7.html

 

After this information you can go shopping and start looking at what fits your budget and what has the best price/performance at this moment. I don't know what the prices are where you live so that is something you have to put effort in.

 

If you need more links for your graphics card, well here you go:

 

http://lanoc.org/review/video-cards

http://www.vortez.net/articles_categories/graphics.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/?category=Video+Cards&manufacturer=&pp=25&order=date

 

Because you don't know much about computer hardware, it is very difficult to know what to get. Try to first decide if you want to overclock your cpu or not. I think Dimitris would say yes and I don't want to conflict because he knows his stuff, but for you I would rather say no to overclocking. Save money and buy a better gpu to get a more balanced system.

 

Here is another interesting link:

 

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/zardon/gigabyte-ga-z87x-oc-motherboard-review-w-intel-i7-4770k/17/

 

After the cpu decision use the advise everybody gave you. Read every tip in previous posts.

 

Summary:

 

-get a non-k haswell i7

-get a good budget cpu air cooler

-get a budget b85 mobo that has every connector that you need

-get enough ram (look at the advise i gave you earlier)

-get a good psu (look at the advise i gave you earlier)

-get a good budget case

-with all the money you have left buy a gpu (please don't try do be too cheap here)

 

Below follows some extra information for those who are interested. You can get haswell temperatures down if you are up for the hassle:

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cpu+lapping&oq=cpu+lapp&gs_l=youtube.1.0.0l2.15145.18109.0.20277.6.6.0.0.0.0.599.799.5j5-1.6.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.p6bP7GslrMA

http://www.coollaboratory.com/en/products/liquid-ultra/

Edited October 17, 2013 by joelmcwilliam

[AJLynn]

I can't read the German but the Tom's Hardware review came to a similar conclusion. Many or most shipping samples of the 4770K were at around 4.3GHz as their highest stable OC. They were a bit faster than the previous generation at the same clock speeds but were using more power and running hotter. The Haswells don't seem particularly good for OC. But if you don't OC, the regular ones seem like a good option.

[joelmcwilliam]

I forgot to mention:

 

if you are on a budget and you don't need the igpu (hd4600) of the normal i7 cpu then buy a i7 xeon 12xx v3 (like for example a Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3).

 

Almost same performance as the normal i7 but cheaper.

[vincentreyes]

Hello again,

 

Thank you very much for all your replies. It helped me get a sense of what I want and also I gained knowledge on your different inputs. I've come to this final setup and fortunately they're all available locally.

 

I've opted to a "K" version of the CPU because I wanted to try out overclocking (Mildly for the meantime). I'll opt for the gtx 650 for the meantime and save up for a decent GPU in the future. The total cost is a little under $1200. Thank you very much for all your contributions. It helped me a lot. I may be a "newbie" in techy stuff but I feel like an "apprentice" with all your help, hehehe.

 

CPU=4770k

Mobo=Asrock h87 m pro 4

Ram=16 gb ares ram

HDD= WD Caviar Black 1 TB

PSU = corsair tx 650 watts

GPU=gtx 650 2gb

CPU Cooler= CoolerMaster Seidon 120m

Dvd= Lite-On DVD+/-RW Dual Layer IHAS124-04

Case =Cooler Master N200

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

O.....as this is a lot harder to change in the future, where as a GPU is very straight forward if you have more funds in the future.

 

Most direst line of communication I have read today. It is tough to understand custom builds with that mentality because you feel like you want the best available component at every level of the computer build.